This week, Toronto Public Health warned that a young adult in the city had the measles, after getting it while travelling. These stories are no longer uncommon; there have been outbreaks of measles in British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Ontario in recent years. One, in Quebec, had more than 100 cases.
One reason is because Canada’s vaccination rates are too low. Eighty nine percent of toddlers have been vaccinated for measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) as well as meningococcal diseases, and 91 percent have gotten the polio vaccine. Vaccinations for diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus and chickenpox are lower, with rates in the 70th percentiles. That’s well below the 90 percent needed for herd immunity – where enough children are vaccinated to protect the whole community, including those with allergies or immune conditions that mean they can’t be vaccinated. And even MMR rates differ across the country, so there are pockets with much lower vaccination rates: Most schools in Vancouver have vaccination rates that are too low for herd immunity, with some as low as 15 percent.
Every new vaccination story seems to be used as an opportunity to rail against anti-vaxxers, who are spoken about with the same disdain as flat earthers. Heated debates and pleas to vaccinate are happening everywhere from Facebook to the doctor’s office – but most of those conversations don’t change people’s minds.
Vilifying people who don’t vaccinate doesn’t help the situation, says Joshua Greenberg, director of the School of Journalism and Communication at Carleton University and a researcher in this field. Nor does acting like they’re dumb or misinformed. “One of the misperceptions is that people don’t get their kids immunized because they simply don’t understand,” he says. But people who don’t vaccinate are often more educated than the general public, and better off as well.
The good news is that researchers like Greenberg are looking into how to best talk to people who are reluctant to vaccinate their kids. Though we don’t have definite answers yet, they have unearthed some promising strategies. Here are seven of those techniques.
1. Stop thinking of all people who don’t vaccinate as anti-vaxxers
“The anti-vaxxer is a specter,” says Greenberg. “It’s character in a narrative. We often inflate the degree of that problem.” Instead, researchers separate them into two groups: anti-vaxxers, who make up 1 to 3 percent of the population, and the vaccine hesitant, a category up to 30 percent of Canadians fall into. Anti-vaxxers are very hard, if not impossible, to convince, but the vaccine hesitant do seem to change their minds.
A study led by Greenberg looked at the attitudes of 1,000 Canadians, and found that while 92 percent thought that vaccines were safe and effective, many of them also had concerns. Twenty-seven percent worried that vaccines might cause serious harm to their children, and 33 percent thought that the pharmaceutical industry was responsible for a push towards mandatory vaccination. Twenty-eight percent were worried about a link between autism and vaccines, despite the fact that any link has been disproved.
2. Keep cognitive biases in mind
Worries around the safety of vaccines have existed as long as vaccines themselves, but much of the recent rise in anti-vaccination sentiment can be traced to a study in the Lancet by Andrew Wakefield that connected autism and the MMR vaccine. That research has now been thoroughly debunked – in 2010, the Lancet issued a retraction on Wakefield’s paper, and he lost his medical licence – but once an idea takes hold, it’s difficult to get rid of it.
That’s because your brain is terrible at processing complex information and rare, emotionally-loaded risks, like a serious adverse reaction to a vaccine. Instead, the brain relies on cognitive biases – shortcuts in how we perceive information. For vaccine hesitancy, we can blame confirmation bias – the tendency to only accept facts that fit our existing beliefs; illusion or explanatory depth bias, which makes us believe that we know more about a subject than we do; and causal illusions, which encourage us to see cause-and-effect where there is none, like between getting a MMR shot and the early signs of autism, which both happen at the same age.
3. Call out distortions in the science
Francesca, a new mom in Toronto, met with her doctor three times to discuss her hesitancy around vaccinating her child. Despite that, he “did not accomplish anything in answering questions I had,” she says. “His words were ‘as of right now there is nothing wrong with these vaccinations.’ To me, they said that about smoking at one time. It’s not good enough to me.” Needless to say, he didn’t change her mind.
Her story is similar to that of other parents we spoke to who had refused to vaccinate their children. They said what would be convincing to them was better scientific evidence. One said: “Until science can definitively prove vaccines are safe … [public relations] won’t sway anyone who has actually researched the safety of vaccines.”
Of course, that science exists. But it’s easily distorted. “There are some very common techniques that science deniers use [and parents absorb],” says Cornelia Betsch, a German psychologist who studies why people choose not to vaccinate. “One is false expectations – they demand 100 percent safety, and nothing on earth is 100 percent safe. They also cherry pick: some anti-vaccination people collect evidence from studies, they pick certain things out of the limitation sections of the studies, and they don’t put that into the context. And they omit the big consensus on the research.” A review by Betsch looked at the messaging side of thing and found that when faced with arguments like these, calling out these techniques can be helpful.
Emphasizing the scientific consensus also seems to help. A randomized trial found that telling people that “90 percent of medical scientists agree that vaccines are safe and that all parents should be required to vaccinate their children” significantly reduced their worries about vaccines and belief in a link between vaccines and autism.
4. Work with confirmation bias instead of against it
Explaining how herd immunity works increases people’s willingness to vaccinate. “It adds some extra value,” says Betsch. “If you know about the individual benefits, you should also learn about the social benefits.”
There’s also some evidence that emphasizing the negative impacts of the diseases, instead of the safety of vaccines, might work. A 2015 study found that showing parents pictures of children suffering from mumps, measles or rubella and a parent’s description of a child’s illness worked better than sharing information debunking the idea that vaccines aren’t safe. Derek Powell, one of the authors of that study and a PhD student at the University of California, Los Angeles, explains that it might work because “if you’re skeptical of vaccines, we’re kind of arguing with you if we talk about vaccine safety. But diseases being dangerous basically fits with what you already think.”
The success of that study goes against the results of a 2014 randomized trial that tested four different ways of promoting the MMR vaccine: offering information explaining that there’s no evidence the MMR vaccine causes autism; information about the dangers of the diseases; photos of children who had measles, mumps or rubella; and a story about an infant who almost died of measles. It found that none of the interventions made parents more likely to vaccinate, and in rare cases, offering evidence about the harms of diseases actually increased beliefs in the side-effects of vaccines – possibly because it put parents in a fearful state of mind.
5. Think about telling real people’s stories
The idea of using personal stories to convince parents is also controversial in scientific circles. After all, if you fight anecdote with anecdote, don’t you lose the upper hand? And even if you do, is it the role of doctors to scare people into action? As Betsch says, “You should really make a decision: do you want to inform people, or persuade them? Usually, health organizations want to inform people and take it seriously that it’s a free decision.”
But Greenberg argues it’s necessary. “Physicians and public health scientists tend to work in a world of statistics, but statistics on their own aren’t particularly compelling. Narratives are the ways in which we have communicated about risk from the very beginning, and stories are the way in which we make sense of the world. We need to find a balance between stories and the evidence.”
6. Change the default
If parents are confused about the evidence, a common reaction is to choose to do nothing. (We can blame another bias for that – the omission bias, which gives us the feeling that harm that comes from an action is worse than harm that comes from inaction.) One response, then can be as simple as having doctors use language that assumes patients are going to vaccinate instead of asking if they will.
Another is to make it harder not to vaccinate. States that make it harder to get exemptions to vaccinations for school attendance have significantly fewer parents opt-out than those that don’t. That’s being adopted in Canada, too: Ontario’s Health Minister has tabled legislation that would require parents to take an educational class before being allowed to opt-out of vaccinating. And Manitoba, Ontario and New Brunswick have enacted legislation that requires children to be immunized before attending public school.
7. Tailor the message to build trust
Health care professionals play a key role here: a systematic review that looked at how doctors should talk to their patients about vaccines suggested a tailored approach is important, given that there isn’t enough evidence to know exactly what kind of messages resonate with patients.
The Canadian Pediatric Society’s guidelines around this suggest how to do that in practice. It suggests physicians start with motivational interviewing (MI), a method that’s used to discuss the parents’ concerns in a non-judgmental way and to isolate a parent’s exact concerns. The technique begins with having health care professionals gauge where parents are in their decision-making process and what their specific concerns are. If someone has few concerns, they might be addressed on the spot. But a parent who is very hesitant might respond better to just getting information and time to reflect ahead of any decision.
The technique, which is commonly used to get patients to accept treatment for alcohol abuse, was first researched on vaccines by Arnaud Gagneur, a doctor and professor at Quebec’s Universite de Sherbrooke. His study involved doing motivational interviewing sessions in the maternity wing at a hospital.“The research assistant [did the interviews] and gave information, but using MI techniques: we ask a lot of questions of the parents, then give answers that are adapted to the questions and position of the parents,” he explains.
The meetings took about 20 minutes, and they included 3,300 families in total. Those parents were 15 percent more likely to say they would vaccinate their babies at two months old, and 9 percent more likely to have completed their scheduled vaccinations when their kids were two years old. (This research hasn’t yet been published.) Gagneur is now testing that approach in pilots across the country, and it’s being introduced in all major maternity wards throughout Quebec at the beginning of 2018.
Part of the reason motivational interviewing is successful, he says, is that parents like it, especially vaccine hesitant ones. “They say, it’s the first time that I feel respected about my position with vaccination, this is the first time someone has spoken to me like this,” he says. “One mother [who had just given birth to her third child] said to the research assistant after the intervention, okay, I’m going to vaccinate my child,and all of my other children as well. It’s the first time that I’ve had a discussion like this, and I feel respected, and I trust you.”
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I had Covid, My doctor told me I do not need the vaccine, as I now have the antibodies, and my immunity will last as long or longer than the vaccine. So it is not a one size fits all. Also, people allergic to shellfish, should not get the vaccine. Also, this vaccine is very rushed, and not in the years clinical trials that most have, It is alo EXPERIMENTAL and not approved by the FDA. So what are the possible long term adverse effect of these vaccines? We don’t know if we don’t follow the people in the trials for the next few years do we? I have had many vaccines, but they were in trials for years.
#1) Correctly stated, anti-vaxxers are highly educated about vaxxs … BUT, this is BECAUSE we dealt [directly or someone close] with vaxx injury — We are actually MOSTLY EX-Vaxxers.
#2) Your comment about “AUTISM DEBUNKED,” is wrong AND just BIASED. A better way to provide this correctly is to say, “SOME in Science feel it is debunked …” Because many also know that link does EXIST! THANK YOU if this actually gets Published.
Let’s not lump old technology vaccinations in with this new mRNA vaccine. Also, let’s not make a cry out to make it mandatory. I don’t agree with abortions but I agree with the right to choose, aka pro choice. I choose not to get the vaccine until further long term studies are done. And by long term, I mean 5 plus years. So you pro choicers out there that say “my body, my choice”, go ahead and get vaccinated. I’ll choose what I want to do with my body. Far more humans have died on abortion tables than will have ever died from this pandemic.
I agree 100 %.plus a good relationship with God is helpful also.
Telling me that 90% of doctors think the covid vaccine is safe makes me run away from it.that means that 10% of doctors think the vaccine is unsafe.thats still a million doctors saying it’s unsafe.not to mention they have ABSOLUTELY no idea about long term effects.how could they,the virus has only been here a year or two.they need to study for many many years for it to be deemed safe.
In 1955 your parents and/or grandparents didn’t have baby supercomputers in their pockets like you do, and they vaccinated against polio and (nearly) eradicated it from human existence with a vaccine that far more rapidly developed than this one. Now here you are with all humanity’s information at your fingertips, and you’re less informed than they were. Shameful.
You forgot the part where 40, 000 children were infected with polio after the first vaccine, So the polio vaccine was withdrawn, and they did a do over, and it took much longer for the revamped vaccine to be available.
I am not anti vaccine but pro safer vaccines. As a preschool special Ed teacher I had students with documented vaccine injuries, death, permanent disabilities etc. I also have several friends whose children had vaccine injuries. What I have found over my 36 years of experience with vaccine injuries is that they are SIGNIFICANTLY under reported. Parents could not get their doctors to admit the injury was due to the vaccine they just received. If you connected with the parent organizations of vaccine injured children and did extensive interviews I think you may have different views.
Probably they weren’t reported because they weren’t from a vaccine.
Awesome Comments, Thank You!
Great great article thank you
Is this article serious? We had all these viruses as kids of the 80s. Natural immunity is best. All my naturally healthy friends have never been in a hospital, to a dr. Never have a cold, flu or infection, are all their proper weight and happy. All my friends who are topped up on vaccines, have chronic pain of some sort, type 2 diabetes, ear infections, IBS, allergies, skin irritations, depression, anxiety….the list is long.
You can sell your snake poison but smart people know. You cant medicate a body to health. Good real food, exercise, and a happy mindset will beat a toxic pill plan any day of the week. #scienceoversponsoredbybogpharma
Toxic pill plan?
No one says that a healthy lifestyle is beneficial and boosts the immune system.
The article says don’t use the numbers argument, yet most people believe in math. Even with a flu shot that is (sometimes) only 50% effective, one is much more likely to die of the flu regardless of diet
I don’t think just a good immune system fights off things like Meningitis, I know someone who lost their perfectly healthy, athletic, young boy to Meningitis because the vaccine was never recommended or required
My entire family had the virus. My 80 year old mom who has a heart stent recovered 3 days faster then her children and grandchildren. It was like having a flu, or bad cold for all of us. Also, many of the people who have been reported as dying from Covid did not die from Covid. Those who die from Covid have diabetes, are smokers, are obese ect…healthy people have a 98.9 percent survival rate. And this vaccine has not been approved by the FDA, and is still EXPERIMENTAL. It should be studied and followed in trials for a few years IMO. If you want the vaccine, I respect it. But you being rude and foul mouthed is garbage. Have respect for others choices.
Vanessa Milne, Timothy Caulfield, Joshua Tepper
Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS)
National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program
Billions paid out and thousands injured
The US National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) has paid out
US$4,431,468,456 for 7,575 vaccine injuries from (financial years) 1989
through 2020. The average settled claim was US$585,012 per claimant. Of the
total claims filed (n=22,372), 94% were claims for non-fatal injury (n=21,035)
and 6% were claims for death (n=1,337). Of the total claims filed, 34% were
successful (n=7,611), 52% were dismissed (n=11,671), and 14% were not progressed (n=3,090). The VICP acts as an indemnity shield for the vaccine industry. The VICP offers a non-litigious path to compensation for the vax-injured.
The VICP is funded by a vax tax of US 75 cents per disease per dose. Injury
claims can be rejected because the claim is filed out of time, the particular vaccine is not a VICP-listed vaccine, the injury is not a VICP-listed injury (e.g.
autism is not listed), or the injury is not sufficiently severe. There were 1.39
compensated injuries per one million distributed vaccine doses (n=5,233 compensated injuries for 3,761,744,351 distributed vaccine doses; 2006 through
2018). The VICP payout rate is US$813 million for vax injuries per one billion
vax doses. Based on past experience of vaccination injury, mass vaccination of
billions of people for Covid-19 can be anticipated to produce vaccine injuries
(including deaths). Based on the historical data of the VICP across 30 different
vaccines, vaccinating a billion people with Covid-19 vaccines, can be anticipated to manifest a scenario of US$813 million of vaccine injuries (as an underestimate). Vaccinating the world’s population (n=7.8 billion) with an initial
Covid-19 vaccine dose may generate US$6.3 billion of vaccine injuries. A two
dose Covid-19 vaccine (prime-boost regimen) may generate US$12.7 billion of
vaccine injuries. A Covid-19 vax regime of (say) three booster shots may generate US$25.4 billion of vaccine injuries. These scenario extrapolations assume
that the Covid-19 vaccines (although developed and administered under pandemic duress), are neither more nor less injurious than the vaccines (n=30) of
VICP experience, which have been tested, certified, manufactured, stored and
administered to US standards, and that there is no differential between the
compensable value of US and non-US injuries.
Yes facts do matter, but you clearly don’t understand the facts that you are saying. Neither of those things refute the fact that vaccines are considered safe to use. Nothing is 100% safe. Vaccines can and will cause some adverse reactions in a small percentage of people. So does eating food. 1 in 100,000 people will die from a foodborne illness in the USA each year. Compare that to 1.39 in 1 million people compensated for injuries to due vaccines – these are not deaths – which is significantly lower I imagine.
Taking a vaccine is about taking on a very small amount of personal risk – in line with the everyday things we do that all have risks – for the benefit of the greater society. People seemed to understand that in the past but maybe today people are just too selfish.
Kyle, this makes sense right up to the point when it is your child who is one of the children whose lives are needlessly ruined by vaccines. These cases are dismissed by the medical establishment. You have to fight your way through a system stacked against you to even get anyone in the medical establishment to admit that what you see happen with your own eyes _actually happened_. Families have to struggle for years to get justice in a system where their claims are routinely dismissed, thrown out and rubbished.
Maybe, just maybe, you are selfish? You want your easy lifestyle where vaccines fix everything. Would you be prepared to vaccinate yourself or your family if you _knew_ one of your family would be one of the statistics accurately reported by Joe? I don’t think so, No sane person would.
I genuinely think that the world suffers from a lack of imagination where vaccination is concerned. Vaccines are most definitely not safe, Saying vaccines are safe is a ridiculous statement, and factually incorrect. Vaccines are dangerous and can be fatal.
VAERS submissions are not vetted or researched claims, they are raw data submissions (remember: correlation does not equal causation). For example: Someone reports to VAERS that they had the COVID vaccine, and 24 hours later, they had a high fever and headache. On the surface, this looks like the shot may have caused the fever and headache. But a full analysis of the person’s exposure over the previous 10 days may show that they had been exposed in dozens of situations prior to vaccination. Visits to friends and family, grocery stores, restaurants, flights, Uber rides, and even visits to the doctor’s office are potential exposures, and that’s just for one individual. What about other people in the household – who or what were they exposed to? The possibilities for exposure can become exponential. VAERS is an important tool used by health professionals to give everyone the opportunity to report on their post-vaccine symptoms, but until cases are fully investigated, they are not proof of anything other than a correlation. Accepting that every submission to VAERS immediately indicates an actual vaccine reaction would be akin to assuming that every call to a police station indicates that a serious crime has been committed.
First, look at the percent of shots that actually resulted in injury (hint: it’s incredibly low), then think about the fact that yes, there is a risk. People all over are getting vaccines for both themselves and those around them. These shots have unknown longterm effects, but that is a risk most people are willing to take to not only protect themselves, but help extinguish the virus. I wish more people were willing to do this.
A Hippocratic dictum of “first, do no harm”
Taken from documents Joe posted.
To do nothing would cause an amazing amount of harm
So much more than the potential harm created through a vaccine programe – how can anyone doubt this when we look at what is happening in India at the moment?
I doubt the veracity of the Hal. archives.
The above arguments are persuasive, but, there is one vital test that no amount of money can buy no matter how much of it has been thrown at the vaccines. That is the time served test, we have yet to have the passage of time served by each and every vaccination to be able to analyse the statistics years after.
-Polio: Essentially gone.
-Measles: Essentially gone. Increasing where vaccinations rates have decreased.
-Tetanus: Essentially gone.
-Shingles: Eficacy tracking better than 90%
-HPV: Efficacy tracking near 100%
-Sars-Cov-2: No brainer. Conspiracy theories and rumours will victimize hundreds of thousands if not millions,
-Fremdscham: Still working on a cure.
where are you getting this information? I would like to see where this is coming from
Please do not compare a choice you can make, like getting vaccinated, to being overweight, something you can’t.
you kind of can though
I do not understand why people are arguing in the comments, did you not read the article? Just tell people the facts and listen to what the have to say. Do not try to shove things down their throats, just express your opinion and understand where other people are coming from. Just because one person has experienced something and you haven’t, doesn’t make it not true. Basically, don’t be a dummy try to force someone to think something.
We are allowed to express our point of view.
I am aghast at the mindset of antivaxers
Simon, I have been saying this for years. If your overweight and need a knee replacement, you should have to meet some bmi requirements before your authorized for the procedure. If you smoke, your premiums go up…just like car insurance…and guess what…you don’t decide your risk stratification….it is decided for you. If you partake in risky behaviors…you pay for it…if you don’t maintain a relationship with a healthcare provider, you have taken yourself off the healthcare grid and you shouldn’t have all the fringe benefits that come with that relationship. Adhering to clinical milestones such as colonoscopies, mammograms, vaccines etc is a behavior that aligns with science and not emotion. Not believing in preventative health measures is their business, but just like breaking the speed limit, I should not be a victim to their careless nonsense…ie. they can pick their demon, as long as their demon does not intersect with established medical science…they need to use their voodoo doll and stay out of my hospital and clinic.
So … SUM UP … WHAT TO SAY.
Yes, I recently heard a scientist say that.
I believe their are benefits and risks to everything. As a parent you don’t want your kid to get sick or die no matter what so you should do research. There’s research drs that do imply if the disease isn’t life threatening(compromised in any way) then it’s beneficial in that they develop natural immunity for other illnesses that come in the future.
This is not an article that talks about giving people facts and letting them decide for themselves. It’s about strategizing how to coerse parents to do your way of thinking
That is not true. I think you are lying, but it could be you actually talked to someone who told you this propaganda and you believed it and are repeating it. I have seen this same BS line repeated at least 50 times in different social media threads. Stop telling lies. This is not true, and shows that you have no comprehension of how death certificates and cause of death determinations work. JUST STOP LYING to promote your agenda.
Walter, you can’t believe things you get a random link to. I’ve researched the last 3 links you’ve posted. Not the data, just the authors or domain name owners. All of them are at best scammers, at worst, criminals.
Walter, Come on, really. You’re getting you medical advise from a couple who sells videos & books on Amazon?
They also claim Bill Gates is funding Covid19 vaccines so he can track us. A. He’s not
B. I’m in technology, that technology absolutely does not exist.
Do any of you research the Dr’s you are blindly taking excerpts from. A simple Google search shows this Dr had to retract multiple research papers for falsifying data. They are the ones who have the agenda. Everyone talks about big pharma money. These individuals are making crazy money off anti-vaxxers. I’m not talking pro or anti vaccine. I’m simply talking about the researchers I’ve seen referenced in this forum. It’s laughable.
Im in no way defending these drs, I also dont agree with them. But big pharma has many times, “claimed” or forcefully retracted papers that didnt provide the positive outcome they paid for. There have been many instances where a perfectly rational, informed, and truthful research paper has been ripped apart and touted as false because if it wasnt then people wouldnt take that drug. Its happened over and over again. The opioid crisis wssnt an accident. It was big pharma pushing their narrative onto weak drs who refused to whistleblower and instead went along with the harm, addicting and killing MILLIONS of people.
Turn of your TV and main stream media, they are super spreaders of misinformation.
Are you aware Dr Andrew Moulden was not a practicing physician. He spent 9 years on a 5 year psychiatry program but didn’t finish. Tried to sell many treatments on the internet for all diseases. Claimed all diseases come from clumped white blood cells. You may want to look for a better reference.
a woman told me her husband had a heart attack and the doctor put it down to hedged of COVID another one died in a road crash he died of COVID and all these people who needed treatment for cancer and of bad problems will now most problely die bet a lot of old people will start dying next year as the vac causes problems and of cause they will say it was old age
Tell me you’re kidding….
Meanwhile elders are developing shingles in record numbers..no doubt from exposure to a child recently vaccinated with the live chickenpox vaccine. A dog can hurt you as much as a wolf!
damm son call the fire department those pro plaguers got burned
Fabulous, me too! they can jam it!
Why not just give people free choice? Ask them, and let them partake in any school and activity with or without vaccine, but if they developed a disease they chose to opt out of vaccination. Healthcare and. Insurance simply not cover any of the bills recurring as a result. Sounds fair to me. We are all free people.
That’s how people die Simon…do you even know about the Diseases your vaccinated against? A lot of them have a high death rate…but sure! Lets just leave then all unvaccinated so we can weed out the weak! Then people like you might not exist!
You’re not your
My own adult son has fallen into to science denying crowd because this whole pandemic has become politicized. I cannot rationally discuss this with him, as he is convinced it’s not safe to take the vaccine. Here I am , his immunocompromised 67 year old mother, but he still fails to understand the science and believes his friends instead of me on this subject. It’s very disheartening. I’ll see him at Christmas and perhaps get infected? It’s crazy, but it’s life.
I’m so sorry you have to go through that! I’m very lucky my entire family understand he need for vaccines and how they work (then again we are a medical family) hopefully he will come round one day. Xx
I am immunocompromised, SgIaD, we don’t make the antibodies to the vaccine (or don’t make many) so for us, the vaccine may not be worth the risk.
I find this article to be full of comedy relief as the ingredients in the vaccines are linked to autism. And talk about cognitive dissonance, how about the owners of the pharmaceutical creating organizations that are the ones debunking the fact that pharmaceuticals are dangerous. I’m not an anti-vaxxer but I am vaccine hesitant as I’ve seen the seriously dangerous life devastating side effects of vaccines and also watched a doctor say that there is no concrete proof that it was caused by a vaccine, just a poorly timed coincidence that my friends 6 year old daughter came down with an unknown illness 4 hours after her vaccine that progressed to leave her paralyzed and unable to communicate other than blinking within 4 months. I am pro naturally strengthening your immune system. So as for your condescending technique on talking to people about your promising strategies based on the fact you don’t have definite answers you must be trained by an organization funded by the Rockefeller’s. There is also the option of contacting one of the many medical facilities around the world that are successfully treating covid with the tried tested and true cure that has been around for decades and might I suggest if you are a doctor and not just a journalist you review the Hippocratic oath you took and forget about the kickbacks from big pharma.
You know, I can understand your fear after such a horrible thing happened. But, I remember someone telling me once, if your sister was killed by a car accident where no one was at fault, would you then become anti cars? And whilst I was angry at first I thought about it. And they are right, so I did a lot of research online, and came to the conclusion…I would rather risk the small percentage chance of a vaccine side effect then the higher percentage chance of the disease effect.
As for covid, I had it and have lost 3 close friends to it. I would never wish that (nor the permanent damage to my lungs) on anyone. But you have your decision made and I have mine.
Oh but I feel I should mention that in my country, the pharmacy doesn’t get money from the vaccines, it actually is at a income loss due to the creation of the vaccine. And they are giving it away for free. I think Americans do the big pharma thing due to having to pay for stuff like that. Maybe that’s why your worried?
There is no link between vaccines and autism. Never has been.
you need to make shocking image memes showing graphic images of diseases that will come back if you dont vaccinate: examples: polio (kids in iron lungs and crippled), smallpox
“Dont like vaccines? try this:
Screw the China Virus Vaccine! I will not take the crap.
Thank you for expressing self love and appreciation for your body that is designed to be vibrantly healthy when you care for it intelligently. As Dr. Joe Dispenza says about today’s access to information – it’s a choice to be ignorant!
Thank you for the interesting article. Vaccination programs have been one of the most beneficial public health measures in history beyond public clean water and sewage treatment efforts. One generation ago my father struggled with polio after he came back from WW2. He recovered and went on to become a doctor. In 1963 he was involved in a countywide effort to deploy the oral Sabin vaccine. I was literally the “poster child” in my hometown newspaper being the first to receive the vaccine during a test run of the mass vaccination campaign. I’m thankful for being born at a time when prevention of communicable diseases were becoming a powerful tool to save lives and reduce suffering.
I agree Dave. I’ve been vaccinated for TB and Measles etc as a child .These vaccines are there to help stop these diseases spreading and I believe if we can get the Covid immunisation going we have a chance of irradiating this Covid. I hope the ‘anti vaxxers’ are totally outweighed by the ‘pro vaxxers’ and we beat this awful (shit) thing
This all bullshit lies. Created by the high elite that control the masses. Many studies have been done to prove vaccines cause autism and other long term disorders as well as depression anxiety schizophrenia, it’s all apart of how the pharmaceutical companies rape us in taxes and control us.
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Ask your doctor what’s in the vaccine. They weren’t able to tell me. They have a list somewhere..
Well, considering the extensive list of ingredients in a vaccine, it’s no surprise that they weren’t able to tell you off the top of their head. They can look that information up for you or look on the vaccine packaging. But y’know, most people can’t even remember certain intricate food recipes without looking at a list of ingredients or instructions! Let alone a whole vaccine composition or even the chemical makeup of different organic items… It’s just not possible to remember that kind of information accurately, and it’s often not necessary if you have a list of it somewhere.
I would be interested to hear directly from more people that agree with the antivaxx movement that have an extensive background in vaccine immunology (PhD). I think that would be more compelling, and would put some real validation to the claims made by the people who believe in this movement. I think that disrespecting people by taking jabs at their intelligence or disregarding their negative experiences with vaccinations won’t do any good. But I do think that most people who share these ideas are lacking certain education in the biological sciences, specifically immunology. In this post they mention that a mandatory educational video is required to be watched before making the decision to decline vaccines, and I think this is a pretty good idea (some middle ground). I think everyone should have the right to make the decision to vaccinate or not, but some education on the pros and cons of vaccination (that is unbiased) would be so beneficial. A lot of scientific research available online has been recited and twisted in a way to fit the narrative of the antivaxx community and it has really impacted the general public. Most of the time the materials and methods or results section of there papers are not thoroughly read or understood by people who do not have experience biology or working in a laboratory. So why not take a deep dive and look at both sides? I think that if you do very strongly believe that vaccinations are more harmful than they are beneficial (or vice versa) it would be an excellent idea to take at least 1 immunology course. If you strongly believe that there are absolutely no issues with vaccines then why not talk to people who have had negative experiences and just hear them out.
My personal experience with vaccines has been a really good one, and I think vaccination and modern medicine has been made with the intent to be beneficial to the majority of the community with really strong research supporting the efficacy of the vaccinations on the market (significant decrease in disease and mortality), but I’ve found that sometimes when medication reaches pharmaceutical companies the water gets a little muddy (urging people to take medications/get certain vaccinations more often than what is recommended). But it is so important to understand that scientific research and big pharma are two separate things and thinking that everything the government touches is trash isn’t a good way of thinking either, because unfortunately a lot of stuff goes through them. I would love to hear more from non-aggressive people about this topic, where both sides are heard and the information is all taken in.. but I do think a big part that information includes first getting that immunology background education (not through google). There are some good youtube lecture videos from Dr. Brianne Barker that cover a semester of immunology that I highly recommend to everyone!
I and my daughter brother cousins and friends are damaged because of vaccinations. I wish that it would all stop.
My whole family and friend circle were harmed because of disease that spread because of contact with anti-vaxxers. I, too, wish that it would all stop.
typical to blame others for your lack of accountability to care for your own health! No one else needs to be harmed for your “safety”. That’s called the “BIG LIE”d and it works cuz most people are just plain LAZY!
It isn’t going to work. You are talking about people who apparently want to bring back smallpox. measles, rubella, diptheria, polio, pertussis, etc. They also overwhelmingly oppose vaccines due to delusional beliefs in completely irrational (to put it mildly) conspiracies such as that Bill Gates is planning to implant microchips in people with a COVID-19 vaccine after having engineered SARS-CoV-2 in a lab. Another is that SARS-CoV-2 is being spread by 5G mobile phone towers. No, I am not kidding. You are dreaming if you think you are going to convince these people of anything. First of all they overwhelmingly reject all definitively proven scientific basis needed to convince them of the need for vaccination, and second, delusional people are notoriously resistant to anything and everything that is contrary to their delusional belief system. You will just be seen as a part of the conspiracy, an agent of Bill Gates, or, whomever.
Your Comment appears to reveal quite a bit about yourself Steve; it reads as a completely delinquent caricature of anyone and everyone who may have doubts, concerns or indeed genuine reasons not to trust vaccination (of which there are plenty legitimate ones which might qualify). Indeed, your comment echoes precisely the point made in the introduction to this article : “an opportunity to rail against anti-vaxxers, who are spoken about with the same disdain as flat earthers.”
Again, your comment reveals far more about your own prejudices which are clearly significant, than any which a third party might have for perfectly legitimate personal reasons.
Robert’s comments completely back up Steve’s post.
Very interesting to find out if Ontario’s health minister has any funding or lobbying activities for any pharmaceutical company. Maybe he could benefit from a class or two on vaccine safety.
You think you know when you learn, are more sure when you can write, even more when you can teach, but certain when you can program. — Alan J. Perlis (Epigrams in programming)
SMALLPOX! Go look it up… or was that just another conspiracy theory…
Antivaxxers think they are sooo smart and the rest of us with our science degrees are just sheep. Answer me this, why do you believe in and trust any medical science. Or why do you disregard the scientific minds that have improved public health 100 fold in the last century?!
You know what, why don’t you all just go back to 19th century medicine? Enjoy your 45 years life expectancy and try not to infect me with your TB or pox…
You are trying to use logical arguments to combat delusional thinking. Alas, they are doomed to fail with almost 100% certainty. I tried your smallpox argument on an anti-vaxer once and was quickly told that the ultimate discontinuation of smallpox vaccination in the US due to vaccine side effects proved his point. Never mind that the actual reason for discontinuation was that side effects at that point actually caused more harm than the virus because vaccination had almost completely eliminated the virus in the wild in the USA to the point that it was exceedingly difficult for it to spread to a non vaccinated person and thus the number of infections was somewhere between tiny and nonexistent and actually smaller than the tiny number of vaccine reactions. That explanation of course was completely ignored by the anti-vaxer. Logic and reason will not work with them.
Do proper double binded, inert placebo testing, over at least two years, on a vaccine… and… you might win support. Until then I’m an exvaccer of 4 members of an extended family, including myself that have been vaccine injured and maimed for life
We don’t need to reinvent the wheel and prove what’s already been proven time and again because you are irrational. That said thanks for ignoring the author’s arguments wholesale and proving my point that this piece is hopelessly optimistic about the ability to convince irrational, mentally ill anti-vaxers of anything. You proved my points in spades. Unfortunately we are just going to have to bring the power of the public heath and social service departments to bear on you. Hint: Not vaccinating your children is with 100% certainty child neglect and endangerment. Ordinarily I would not support this type of intervention but the complete irrationality of anti-vaxers in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence and potential consequences of their failure to vaccinate justifies it. If you insist we can also return to the days of hauling infected individuals off and forcibly quarantining them against their will which was quite common as late as the early 20th century. This is well within the constitutional powers of public health departments if needed. If you wish to return to pre vaccine disease levels we can use pre vaccine disease control methods to mitigate the damage you do.
make sure you take a couple of doses and EXTRA doses of Covid Vaccine, for good measure….no placebos, please!
Maybe you need to start researching the ingredients for each vaccine. Start with the CDC website. Do the research and speak with parents of vaccine injured children or visit ‘we are vaxxed’ and you’ll see first hand how damaging vaccines can be. I never vaccinated my child who is now 23 years of age and he has become the most healthiest of his peer group by far.
You have no idea if he is the healthiest of his peer group or not that is just your subjective evaluation. Further he has benefited from all the other parents who did not neglect their children and did vaccinate them thus insuring herd immunity, which is what in all probability prevented him from being infected with the diseases you negligently failed to vaccinate him against. So, sorry, your anecdotal account simply re-enforces the benefits of vaccination. The bottom line is if everyone did what you did smallpox would still be killing 5,000,000 people a year every year worldwide.
Nice try but bollocks. Medical experimentation (aka vaccination) rates are falling because people are waking up and doing their own research.
So in other words, manipulate the living shit out of people. In my opinion, the public hanging should be brought back and anyone who wants to force vaccines gets a choice: leave the country or be an example of what happens to traitors by public hanging. You want to take away the right to choose, the right to freedom, then that’s tyranny. That makes you a traitor and a threat to liberty. I’m completely serious. I’ve had it with the threat of having my body and my children’s bodies high jacked. You want a fight, harass me with the lies on this page or try to force immunizations.
Yep, the anti-vaxer loons are proving my point in SPADES. They are completely impervious to logic and reason. :)
Reading all these comments from one party trying to 1-up the other party is one of the most entertaining activities I’ve done. Although I’ve lost numerous brain cells,
10/10 best hour I’ve spent in my life
Post more! Seriously, I am really digging what you have written so far. I’ve scanning your blog right now for more things to read.
Interesting article. Where did you got all the information from…
My mom said I was misinformed and practically called me stupid because I said anti vaccination is wrong and it can kill if you dont vaccinate her immediate response was to say i was wrong but I know I’m not
If vaccines worked there would be no need for this enforced herd mentality. The fact they don’t work is why an intelligent person would never knowingly inject poisons and toxins into themselves. Only fools think that shooting yourself with little bullets(viruses) will save you from dying from a big bullet. No logic only profiteering via human sickness. Do you really think a corporation that only profits when humans are sick is going to make all humans healthy? Good one. What are you asking Santa for this year?
At some point you need to face the facts. Vaccine promises do not hold up to scrutiny. Even a basic understanding of science indicates risk is involved here, but instead of openly discussing risks, problems, the information is buried or covered up. (Vaccine_gate). No amount of legislation, celebrity spokespeople or pharma shills masquerading as scientists and doctors will fool intelligent people, for long. What’s gets those making money from vaccines is that intelligent people are on to them. Intelligent people will not let others chemically stupify and stunt their children, no matter their credentials. (Options and transparency are the only way to credibility)
Where are your sources for the information in this article? Especially the part about anit-vaxxers being “more educated “ about the topic than people who vaccinate?!
They like to think they are more educated. As explained to me by my daughter – this allows them to think the are superior to the majority of people who understand the need to vaccinate.
I would like to respond to the part of the article that says (with truth) that, to paraphrase, ‘not all people who are against vaccinations are anti-vaxxers’.
I find that it has the same mechanics as people who express their convictions regarding elements of past or present ‘conspiracy theories’; as one sides with certain elements or portions of those theories, they are still labeled a conspiracy theorist, thus being discredited, not only regarding the conspiracy theory that they are referring to, but anything else that they may offer insight or an opinion on. The same is for advocates against vaccinating.
I am grandparent,my son had every jab that was required,he has 4 children who insist that don’t have any jabs and I have tried to change his mind,I have spoke recently about covid 19 and ask if they would that one,he said no
And good on him to your son.
No sorry i watched a very informative and very intelligible program or 10 and 1 especially about the group D_rpa-wow! The thing is too, if these vaccines are safe-well, from an article about this Covid19 the guy that is very big on vaccines indicated in an article something to the effect they would or should look at the liability issues or lessen any as there’s probable 700,000 people for example, that could be hurt from a vaccine, etc…
One thing too, when you think about it, if people that say, get or have been vaccinated and then others that haven’t been or took the shot didn’t, how is it that they’re a threat to the ones who got the shot or vaccine? Hm.
How about some double blind studies on all vaccine testing, reporting the true numbers of harm, accepting that within minutes of having a vaccine when a child has a seizure and becomes autistic it WAS the vaccine that caused the harm. Heck how about telling the damn truth for a change, what do you think about that one!? We should not need propaganda if your miracle poisons were so good, Big Pharma get out of the Government lobby, Government get out of Big Pharmas’ pockets. I personally know many people who are vaccine injured including me from a hep B vaccine, now I have sarcoma on the injection site and nerve damage on that same arm. The Swine flu vaccine in 2009 gave me the Swine flu and I was sick for two months, I have never been sicker in my life.
A friends elderly mother was paralysed from the flu shot last year, she had the shot, had a fever, then couldn’t get out of bed ever again.
Another friends child was bright and bubbly, at two years old had the MMR shot, within hours he had a raised temperature and started to mentally decline into severe autism. Over one million women in Asia and many in Africa were sterilised from vaccines and many of young women are injured from the Guardisil vaccine which along with the flu shot seem to be terribly dangerous.
NOW CONVINCE ME VACCINES ARE SAFE!
How about some double blind studies on all vaccine testing, reporting the true numbers of harm, accepting that within minutes of having a vaccine when a child has a seizure and becomes autistic it WAS the vaccine that caused the harm. Heck how about telling the damn truth for a change, what do you think about that one!? We should not need propaganda if your miracle poisons were so good, Big Pharma get out of the Government lobby, Government get out of Big Pharmas’ pockets. I personally know many people who are vaccine injured including me from a hep B vaccine, now I have sarcoma on the injection site and nerve damage on that same arm. The Swine flu vaccine in 2009 gave me the Swine flu and I was sick for two months, I have never been sicker in my life.
A friends elderly mother was paralysed from the flu shot last year, she had the shot, had a fever, then couldn’t get out of bed ever again.
Another friends child was bright and bubbly, at two years old had the MMR shot, within hours he had a raised temperature and started to mentally decline into severe autism. Over one million women in Asia and many in Africa were sterilised from vaccines and many of young women are injured from the Guardisil vaccine which along with the flu shot seem to be terribly dangerous.
NOW CONVINCE ME VACCINES ARE SAFE!
Very interesting subject , regards for putting up.
I have a brother who grew up with ADHD and displays psychological stress in his interpersonal relations. I love him, and while we live in different cities, we talk and communicate often.
After watching Loose Change, he became convinced that the US government pulled off the 9/11 attacks. Since then, he has become an absolute believer in every conceivable counter-to-accepted-science theory: fluoride is mind control, contrails are really chemtrails which are mind control, the illuminati are controlling governments, the Jews and the banks have taken control of the financial system, the Pope, Queen Elizabeth II, Hillary Clinton and others are all agents of a secret society, there is a deep state at work inside western governments, every doctor who has discovered a cure for cancer has been killed by secret agents or escaped to mexico, big pharma is actively hiding real cures in order to profit, universities are merely indoctrination centres, Holocaust denial, the Sandy Hook Elementary shooting and others were hoaxes designed by government to take guns away from citizens, there was a child sex ring in a pizza parlour linked to Hilary Clinton, men in black, lizard people (maybe) every single politician except perhaps Donald Trump is crooked, climate change is a hoax, he is an indigo child and so has special perception beyond the rest of us who are in the “mainstream”, and yes, he abhors vaccines and spends boatloads of money buying remedies from Russia and drinking water laced with hydrogen peroxide. Much of his information has come from dubious websites and groups: Alex Jones, QAnon, various Alt Right and assorted conspiracy and new age sources which together act as a sort of cultish matrix. One of the characteristics of cults is to convince adherents not to trust “mainstream” sources, friends or relatives, and perversely given all the mind control fear, they in fact aim to control the message.
My dear brother, who is normally kind and considerate, can now fly in uncontrolled rants about any, and sometimes a stream of, unscientific conspiracies in tones that can can be rude, anti-Semitic, misogynous, and above all arrogant.
I spent a carrer in the Navy, commanded a destroyer, commanded a task group, ran an operations centre and filled a lot of HR and training roles. I have learned, especially from going to sea where consequences are immediate and real, that evidence based decision making is imperative. There is a place for speculation and hypothesizing in life but never in place of hard facts and rational risk evaluation when decisions must be made that affect safety and lives.
I continue to try to bring my brother back from a state of mind in which he insists he is “creating his own reality”. It is unfortunate that some individuals who have become obsessed with their own reality may not only harm themselves but others as well, directly or indirectly. This is the case for those who argue against vaccines. I found out recently that he, and possibly another relative, pressured our 92 year-old mother, who he lives with, into not getting the flu vaccine this winter for the first time. I have always recommended that she consult with her doctor and make the right choice for herself, never wanting to treat her like a child and encouraging her to make independent decisions. Faced with a vocal anti-vaccine brother, I may now have to my own rules going forward and put pressure on my mother for next year and for the COVID-19 vaccine when it comes along.
I find it underhanded and arrogant for my brother to have convinced my mother not to vaccinate, but I will continue to speak reason and show him compassion. I do think he has fallen into a sort of mental state in which he is no longer able to think and act fully rationally. I am sure that others have felt the same as in relation to their own loved ones.
Best to all
Damn, your brother sounds like my brother. :(
Still not convinced. I can bring a lot of facts against vaccination and yet, not get heard by vaxxers. Those who vaccinate just don’t want to listen and they don’t believe there might be exceptions. Little do they know or think about long-term side effects of the vaccines like cancer. Then they wonder why so many cancer cases around nowadays. You may think there is no evidence to this, but you will not think why there’s no evidence – because it’s impossible to track the same person for years to prove that they got cancer from a vaccine. Vaxxers 100% sure that they’re right about vaccines, but in reality they’re too lazy to do a research. And they would never prove themselves wrong, because it hurts. They won’t look for vaccine injury report data, they won’t learn how immune system works, they won’t read testimonials by parents whose kids got injuried, they won’t think why vaccine injury compensation programs even exist, they won’t listen to doctors who realized the danger of vaccines, they won’t read about vaccine recalls, they won’t do anything that can prove them wrong, and that’s a big problem.
I can bring a lot of facts FOR vaccination and yet, not get heard by anti-vaxxers. Those who don’t vaccinate just don’t want to listen and they don’t believe there might be benefits. Little do they know or think about long-term side effects contracting the disease. Then they wonder why so many diseases around nowadays. You may think there is no evidence to this, but you will not think why there’s no evidence – because it’s impossible to track the same person for years to prove that they got a disease from not taking the vaccine. Anti-Vaxxers 100% sure that they’re right about vaccines, but in reality they’re too lazy to do a research. And they would never prove themselves wrong, because it hurts. They won’t look for anti-vaccinated disease data, they won’t learn how immune system works, they won’t read testimonials by parents whose kids got a disease, they won’t think why vaccines even exist, they won’t listen to doctors who realized the benefits of vaccines, they won’t read about vaccine benefits, they won’t do anything that can prove them wrong, and that’s a big problem.
THANK YOU FOR A WELL BALANCED AND LUCID COMMENTARY ON THE SUBJECT OF VACCINATIONS. HUMANITY HAS TO RELY ON FACTS AND RATIONAL THOUGHT IN RESPECTS TO SCIENCE IF WE ARE TO SURVIVE AS A SPECIES. THE MAJORITY OF OUR FELLOW HUMANS LACK THAT CRUCIAL ABILITY OF CRITICAL THINKING AND THEREFORE DEFER TO BASIC AD HOC APPROACH TO THE QUESTIONS AT HAND. THESE NONSENSICAL RAVINGS PROPOSE A REAL THREAT HEALTH AND WELFARE TO THE DETRIMENT OF MANKIND AS A WHOLE. PERHAPS COOLER HEADS OF MEDICINE WILL PREVAIL AND ONE DAY WE WILL BE BETTER EQUIPPED AND PREPARED TO ANSWER OUR OWN QUESTIONS LOGICLY.
When CDC and similar bodies lost the argument re vaccines (Aluminium/Mercury neurotoxins, monkey or similar foreign DNA, Polysorbate-80 etc, etc) being safe – they roll out the shrinks to tell you what to think.
Your brother may have saved your mothers life, I know a lady 82 years old that was paralysed from the flu shot last year. I think you might want to do some research on the heavily censored topic of vaccine injury. One example is last year ZERO people died from the measles yet around 127 people died from the measles vaccine, millions of women have been sterilised in asia and africa from vaccines. My friends son is autistic after the MMR vaccine and I myself have nerve damage and sarcoma from hep b vaccine and you being a military person should know very well about Gulf War Syndrome and the thousands of vaccine damaged soldiers from the squalene in the vaccines. I would be thanking your dear brother.
Vaccines are over prescribed and under par for honest safety testing.
Big Pharma are exempt from prosecution on harm they cause and very dishonest in their business practice with the Ghost writing and rubber stamping of reports. You can find out the truth on Learntherisk.org I don’t trust them at all, my immune system will do fine. When was the last time you heard a Doctor say eat healthy, exercise and don’t put toxins in your body?
tell them that the person who said vaccinces were bad was actully a person who worshiped satan ^w^
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The last few words written in #7 says it all. “I trust you”.
Stand tall and straight and, if possible, keep both feet on the ground. If you forget a part, you can still talk about it and the audience won’t even know that you skipped a part. If not, tell the person’s name and tell them they are about to learn more.
The anti vax movement always has heart rendering images of dead children and grieving parents. The vax movememt must do the same but Its hard to imagine an anti vax parent permitting that kind of publicity given their ideology and/or their guilt. One or two “good” stories could go a long way in this battle of minds. Any defense attorney knows those methods always sway the jury in personal injury cases.
My logic was quite off…this is what I meant to say:
The emotional heart rendering images of once living non-vaccinated children given in video testimonials by grieving parents is truly a sad event to witness. But, the clinical statistics and the confirmation by 90% of the medical community prove the deaths (and trauma) of unvaccinated children clearly outnumber the vaccinated.
The vax movement has a difficult image solution it must promote. It must publicize real testimonials of children and parents whose stories celebrate
their lives. Parents who have volunteered their families to such an undertaking would of course be random and fictional representatives of the “surviving” vaccinated movement. It would take a science based ideologically committed set of two parents who would conceivably step up to this kind of commitment because their would no doubt be some controversy—but one must confront ignorance with determined methods.
https://youtu.be/cLwaKGpUFQw Watch Dr. Bergmans Video then make your opinion
I fight them by agreeing with them, I too support a population cleanse. Watch how quickly they change their tune when they find a psychopath agreeing with them. It may not be the morally correct way, but it’s effective. The reason they’re anti-vaxxers (or vaccine hesitant) is fear. I present something scarier than ignorance, and they cannot ignore it (psychological effect of agreeing with someone is that they’re more willing to listen to you). I may be messed up in the head, but it doesn’t mean i can’t use that to my advantage.
As an antivaxxer myself, I think that coming to terms with the fact that we have our own reasons instead of telling us that you think your 100% correct and that we are completely wrong
F*ckin?tremendous things here. I抦 very glad to see your post. Thanks a lot and i am looking forward to contact you. Will you kindly drop me a e-mail?
The vaccination argument is probably the only argument that I find it not to be a logical fallacy to call someone an idiot and call it a day. If you are pro-vaccination then you’ve already won the argument without even saying anything.
this is dumb
Thanks for your article. It’s very unfortunate that over the last years, the travel industry has already been able to to fight terrorism, SARS, tsunamis, flu virus, swine flu, as well as first ever real global recession. Through everything the industry has proven to be robust, resilient and dynamic, getting new ways to deal with hardship. There are often fresh problems and opportunity to which the industry must all over again adapt and respond.
I’ve run into a lot of anti vaxxers, but these look they might actually work. :/
A very exciting go through, I may not agree completely, but you do make some really legitimate factors.
AHHH VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM YOU DAMN WEIRDOS. MY CHILD GOT VACCINATED AND DIED. (IT WAS IN A CAR CRASH BUT THE PERSON DRIVING WAS VACCINATED, COINCIDENCE, I THINK NOT!)
OMG YOU ARE SO RIGHT!
i can’t tell if this is satire or not tbh
This author needs to read up on their info. Dr. Wakefield has been exonerated and a process has been set in motion to get his research rightfully published to The Lancet.
Face-palming so much reading some of the responses.
If you don’t have the ability to read and understand medical scientific data and studies, then either educate yourself to be able to do so, or hold your tongue, because you are arguing with no actual information.
Also, the rabid tone of the posts from those who are deciding to not vaccinate borders on showing some of you as uncaring, selfish people.
Yes, we should all take time to research whatever it is that is unknown to you, but I do not understand the ability to blind one’s self to actual peer reviewed scientific evidence just for the desperate need to be “right”. You are choosing that need above the truth.
It would be great to see the actual “scientific evidence”. Referring to those who have valid concerns as “selfish” shows your inability to truly hear thee concerns. The science has NOT been proven for safety. So far, the research I have encountered in support of the claimed “safe and effective” vaccines has been terribly flawed, not to mention the tremendous conflicts of interest between FDA, Big Pharma, and WHO. The inserts themselves (yes, i have taken the time to squint and read them) list the countless possible side-effects and most inserts state that the vaccine has not been tested for “Mutagenicity, Carcinogenicity and Impairment of Fertility“.
I suppose it is selfish that I decline to subject my child’s undeveloped immune system to such risky practices in the name of the mythological “herd immunity”.
Why are the drug companies protected against vaccines injury lawsuits ? The only law that exists holds them harmless against liability
If they are safe then why does this law exist?
I think its that law that keeps them safe
Vacination Indoctrination! Shameful tactics to push poison.
” but people who don’t vaccinate are often more educated than the general public, and better off as well” is the only intellegent and ethical statement in this piece of propaganda.
Delete the reference to Wakefield! Congratulations on ruining a good man. Once discredited so inhumanely, recovery is near impossible, but his colleagues that were tried for the same, were aquitted in their appeals of all accusations exept a minor beurocratic red tape matter that Dr. Wakefield regrets greatly, because it makes his data appear useless. His data was released as a corrolation meant to trigger deaper research, not an outright claim of causation. CDC and Pharma don’t want to research possible dangers, they want to sweep them under the rug!
Why did the CDC hire Harvard Pilgrim Medical (HVM) to organize the collection of VAARS data for deeper research and when HVM alerted the CDC that they had a clear indication that less than 1% of vaccines were being reported to the system, and they had developed a fix, ready to plug in to the CDC, the CDC pulled funding and ghosted the HVM.
This is complete and unethical hogwash. I have to much ethical conscience to wish on you what you deserve. I hope your conscience keeps you up at night!
I feel that, yes, they could have done it more ethically. but doctors have been wrong before. also Pharma and CDC have done their research to make sure they’re safe.
your gullible there not trying to help/save the people there making money off you
After reading more of this mind-boggling comment board than I should have, my conclusion is that the worse the spelling the grammar, the more unhinged the comment. Science!
Thanks for sharing
… just sitting here, after being a bit set back after reading the article. An article written by an individual who knows nothing of the very subject they chose to publish, but that seems to be what this Internet is full of, so again not shocked any more. Then, following down the page, again I’m reading what seems to be nothing more than finger tip “I know more than you! No, I know more than you!!!” mini-meaningless battles, and these mini-battles take front stage. A stage where unbiased scientific evidence is disbelieved … some of us call unbiased scientific evidence “fact and truth” … what I’m reading, more so thank not, is arguments against truth, therefore this article and its mini-finger battles below it is/are meaningless. Indeed it is meaningless when unbiased scientific evidence becomes nothing more than irritating argument debris and nothing more. Regarding vaccines; before any person should be allowed to speak/or write/ type/ text, in any directing or teaching way about them, that person/s should be able to answer these 2 questions without hesitation; A. “Each Vaccine is made of what ingredients (what are the properties/chemicals/metals/tissues/adjuvants of each one)” … Then question “B. “What are the known properties /function each of each of those ingredients. Meaning it’s origins, it’s positives, it’s negatives, it’s warnings, what is each properties history” …. the unbiased factual answers to those 2 questions will cause actual educated discussions.
Just reading all these comments makes me really disappointed. Vaccines are necessary, and anyone who is an anti-vaxxer is just downright ignorant. You can call me out all you want with your “proof”, but it is all a load of bs.
Oh and all the people tell us to educate ourselves, please educate YOURSELVES, because you have obviously never heard of Smallpox, Measles, andother diseases that vaxxines PROTECT you from
Instead of looking at the “PROOF” that vaxxines cause deaths, just look at the OBVIOUS decrease in the numbers of people infected by said viruses
Statistics can be easily manipulated simply through changes in criteria for diagnoses. As far as proof of vaccine deaths, you only need to look at the International Classification of Death (created in 1900) that officially recorded death by vaccination (see list below). Since the WHO took it over in 1948 it was rebranded to the International Classification of Death and Disease, but vaccine damage is still in there. I personally have spent many hours of my free time researching through official documentation from the National Archives (thanks for the Freedom of Information Act) that contains many many many, too many, reports of damage and compensation payouts to injured families. I suggest you educate yourself instead of parroting the party line and claiming all antivaxers are ignorant.
International Classification of Death / Revision 1 / 1900
01 Smallpox: vaccinated
02 Smallpox: unvaccinated
03 Smallpox: doubtful
04 Cow-pox and other effects of vaccination
International Classification of Death / Revision 4 / 1929
44(2) Other sequelae of vaccination
International Classification of Death / Revision 5 / 1938
195a(2) Other sequelae of vaccination against smallpox
International Classification of Diseases / Revision 6 / 1948 (WHO)
(E940-E946) Complications due to non-therapeutic medical and surgical procedures.
E940 Generalised vaccinia following vaccination
E941 Postvaccinal encephalitis
E942 Other complications of smallpox vaccination
E943 Post-immunisation jaundice and hepatitis
E944 Other complications of prophylactic inoculation
I am still pro vaxx, but i like that you did the research so that you have ACTUAL points to stand by. good job.
Well, this vaccine is only experimental, and not approved by the FDA. I am pro vaccine, just not this one. Get back to me in 5 or 6 years after we see how well people are doing.
excuse me, show me links with clinical trials that vaccines are safe .???? no … there are none …
Please educate yourselves people. Most people are not anti-vaxx, they are PRO-safety for our children!!
You are right – it is not the Vaccines as such. It is the **aluminum**.
Can you explain WHY so much aluminum is used in Vaccines for small children?
Also – in the Chemtrails that are being sprayed in the skys? (Which are also apparently a myth although we all see them.
Vaccines are not the problem. The deliberate poisoning of children is very much the problem.
And people whose paychecks count on them keeping quite and “not seeing this” defintely will not see it.
I have an idea! Let’s legalize cannabis to further numb and dumb down the populous so they won’t or can’t care. Oh, yes! That’s already been done.
Here is where this is all headed to: https://youtu.be/bMeXSlGJZYc?t=955 Start paying attention.
Dr. Exley’s study — “Aluminium in brain tissue and autism” — is the final piece of a puzzle that first started to come together in 2004, and picked up steam since 2010, that has dramatically furthered the scientific understanding of exactly how a vaccine can trigger autism.
Why is aluminum in vaccines at all?
Aluminum is a critical component of most vaccines given to children. It serves as an “adjuvant” meaning the aluminum serves to “wake up” the immune system, provoking the immune system to recognize the “antigen” within the vaccine for whatever disease the vaccine serves to protect against. The amount of aluminum in vaccines given to children skyrocketed beginning in the early 1990s for two reasons: 1), more vaccines were added to the children’s vaccine schedule and, 2), the vaccination rate for all vaccines given to children rose (from 50–60% of children vaccinated in the mid-1980s to over 90% today). A child in the mid-1980s would have received 1,250 micrograms of aluminum from their vaccines by their 18-month birthday if they were fully vaccinated. Today, that number is 4,925 micrograms, a near-quadrupling of total aluminum. You can read more about this in an excellent study published by Neil Miller, here’s an image from the study:
I would debate that confirmation bias works both ways. I have yet to find a pro-vaxxer who can name the ingredients in a vaccine. There are thousands od parents of vaccine damaged kids, and they sometimes after they witness this damage, become knowledgeable about vaccinations.
Some fun questions_
Why has the VAERS program paid out 3 Billion to the parents of vaccine damaged kids?
Why are there measles outbreaks and other illnesses in communities that are heavily vaccinated?
If a child has the MTHFR gene, does this mean their BBB(Brain Blood Barrier) is not as developed as other kids and the adjuvants such as aluminum can reside in the brain?
Some countries don’t recommend all the vaccines that we in America do. Such as Dtap. Does that mean these European countries are wrong, less advanced?
Back in the 60’s there were 8 vaccines that were suggested. Now there is 72 in the CDC vaccine schedule by the age of 18. Is this correct? Are they developing more for us?
Does getting all these vaccines mean we are healthier?
I would much appreciate an answer to one or all of these questions.
I would love an adult debate with an objective moderator, to just ask these questions to doctors and scientists from both sides of the argument.
I’m afraid the ego the internet breeds is not one of intelligence Bill, so we are left with mini meaningless finger battles of mush, and neither side of these mini battlers wish to actually learn factually. By the way, I’ve asked similar from them as you have … because if the ingredients were known, the properties and histories, there would be zero arguments and zero articles such as this,
The so-called “link” between vaccines and autism, which was created by the British-born physician, Dr. Andrew Wakefield, was disproved and debunked, years ago, due to the fact that it was found that he’d deliberately and knowingly used falsified, flawed data to create that so-called “vaccines-autism link” of his.
The anti-vaccine movement, as a whole, is based on an ignorant, vicious and irrational fear and misunderstanding of autism…period! Ignorant, or willfully ignorant parents who refuse to vaccinate their kids against deadly but preventable diseases are not only harming other people’s kids, and people, who, due to certain conditions, cannot be vaccinated, but are putting their own kids at risk, as well.
You are simply incorrect.
I would like to know, had there ever done a reliable study in which statistically examined a group of children who received vaccinations against a group that were not given, over several years and saw that there was no difference between them?
I think that would be the only way to prove that there is no risk in getting vacinated, because I keep reading that it was proved by many studies that there is no association between vaccines and autism, where can I get hold of this studies.
Thank you, a concern parent that can’t get him self to just believe the doctor.
The author of this article clearly has no idea of the dangers of vaccination. Alongside the fact that they dont work AND create MORE infection via shedding, who should give their baby formaldehyde, alluminium, embrotic cells, other animal DNA, and all manner of poisons known to cause harm.
Wow this is so stupid! How about u all do the research !start with Dr Tenpenny Dr Suzzane Humpries Dr John Bergman is a good start! There isnt anything healthy in any vaccine! I’ve been researching for 8 urs now my Chiropractor took 5 yrs of pharmacy n decided she didn’t want to kill but heal! She got me off over adoz meds n replaced with herbs n supplements the meds were killing me! Have auto immune from one flu shot yrs ago have a daughter injured from vaccines n two grandkids so there’s isn’t one thing u can say to ever convince me pumping deadly chemicals into a small. Child will promote health ! WAKE UP!
I vaccinated my cat the other day. Please vaccinate your children. Metals arent harmful to the body. We have metals in our systems already.
You are simply partially educated, I’m afraid that’s not a good place to argue from.
Nope. Read the inserts. Never injecting my kids with metals. Sorry, pharma! :)
If you are referring to aluminum, you consume more aluminum in foods than you do in vaccines.
The fact is that vaccines are not effective, they only slightly reduce the odds of catching a disease, The main reason for the decline of these diseases is better hygiene practices and poeple being more careful in there day to day lives.
this is a typical post on a FB thread about vaccines. people worried abot what the ingredients in vaccines are etc :
How do I counter this ? What are the contra facts here to these assertions ?
e.g. : ” I’m not for the vaccines made by big pharma and they are the only options, they are full of crap and making some kids disabled on receiving them. I do wish people having these arguments would see that both sides are right, the only problem is how the vaccines are made, if we had safe vaccines then i think we’d all be on board with herd immunity and vaccination “. …. and stuff like .. ” I’m not for the vaccines made by big pharma and they are the only options, they are full of crap and making some kids disabled on receiving them. I do wish people having these arguments would see that both sides are right, the only problem is how the vaccines are made, if we had safe vaccines then i think we’d all be on board with herd immunity and vaccination. “
We all have the benefit of living in a largely immunized society. I believe most anti-vaccine proponents, even the most self-righteous and disdainful, would think differently if there was an outbreak of full blown small pox among the unvaccinated, or if polio were to return to active threat status. We haven’t experienced that, thanks to vaccines. I realize I just opened myself up to mockery from the most rabid antivaxxers on this thread. I’m “immune” so don’t bother.
I had Covid, so I do not the vaccine according to my doctor. But I am sure you know way more then him. He also stated this vaccine is rushed, and is not approved by the FDA, yet.
Let the Anti Vaxers gave their way. If the are right fine. If no natural selection will take its course.
How can I respond in a calm effective way to an acquaintance FB posting: “I was just in our pediatrician’s waiting room where I saw a 13 yr old boy have a seizure while he was waiting his ten minutes before leaving after having had a vaccination. He and his dad were laughing about sneaking out without waiting when it happened. I have never blamed vaccinations for David’s autism but I am very leery of them. I have no doubt that this reaction never gets reported.”
Followed with a comment: ” After learning in class about potential problems of HPV and researching along with my husband (who has a PhD in Biophysics), our older daughter skipped this vaccine…too many potential problems and didn’t inoculate for all types of the virus. So in other words, if you are exposed to HPV, the vaccine might not even address the strain you were exposed to (but unfortunately you may have to deal with the side effects from the vaccine). Looks like an unnecessary vaccine being pushed on us. Our family’s alternative—work to keep our immune system strong.”
I’d love a 2-3 sentence comment.
Anti backers should be prosecuted for endangering the welfare not only of their children, but that of other children as well.
OMG . Herd immunity really if you’re vaccinated and immune why would you be worried about unvaccinated children in the school system your article has opened my eyes to the corruption from within the government and medical system. And why is it we can get adjuvant free vaccinations for our pets but not for our children. Mandatory vaccinations is raising a big red flag for me saying there’s definitely something wrong with this. If you want to build trust you’re definitely going the wrong way about it anything that is mandated by the government or the medical system should be question with extreme scrutiny. This is more question of Rights and Freedoms then of Health and well-being thank you for opening my eyes to the tyranny of the vaccination industry.
First off, vaccines are not 100% effective, there is a reason that any virus that can be vaccinated against is referred to a vaccine-preventable disease. Second of all, there are people who cannot be vaccinated due to medical concerns such as allergies to components of the vaccine, age(there is no vaccine for anyone under 6 months of age), and immune system status(i.e. cancer patients, those with AIDS or HIV, or other immune compromising diseases) by vaccinating oneself and ones children one protects those who cannot be vaccinated by aiding in herd immunity which requires at least a 90% vaccination rate to be effective in preventing outbreaks. Thirdly, you can, in fact, get adjuvant free vaccines for humans, however, they’re not particularly popular because the purpose of adjuvant is to enhance a persons immune response. Because your medical decisions regarding vaccines do not only impact you, but also anyone you come into contact with and their families, mandates made by the government, backed by the medical system, should be respected.
Hi – the people who reject vaccines are the informed ones, who know the real truth and have taken the time to read the real research. Sadly the majority of people listen to the media and propaganda. This article is just another example of the pure ignorance regarding the subject of vaccines. Dr. Wakefield was absolutely dessimated and lost his licence for telling the truth. Here is a link to read about what the real truth regarding this courageous doctor:
Go to this link to read some additional studies regarding vaccines:
I am a retired RN and have seen how indocrinated the medical profession is re vaccines. I have asked pharmacists if they know what are in vaccines and many did not know. Unreal!! I have heard of nurses and doctors who also know the real truth about the dangers of vaccines, but are afraid to speak out because they may lose their licence. It is unreal how pharma has such a strong hold on society. We need to fight back and not give up, as our kids lives are at stake!!
Go to http://www.vaccinechoicecanada.com They have a huge amount of great information, along with many articles, studies videos, etc. It is a fantastic site. You can also become a member for $35 (optional) per year. It is the best $35 I have ever spent, as the information they provide is truly amazing.
You do realize that Wakefield had his medical licence revoked for more than just his research on vaccines, right? He A. was receiving money from lawyers of the UK Legal Aid Fund who deliberately wanted to present vaccines as unsafe, he was payed over Â£400,000 to falsify his research. B. on top of being payed to falsify his data Wakefeild had also had filed for a patent for his own MMR vaccine. C. he payed children at his sons birthday party for blood samples(which is enough to have a medical licence revoked without the other controversies committed by Wakefield).
Wakefield is not relevent. 25 years on, and people are not vaccinating because children are becoming sick and injured, with long-term health problems following vaccination. Those cases are deliberately not recorded. In one case I know of personally, the child had an anaphylactic reaction *in the surgery* immediately following vaccination, and had to be resuscitated. The doctors then turned to the mother and told her that the shock wasn’t due to the vaccine. Turned round and gaslighted her. Just like that. Even when you do have your vaccine reaction reported, there’s no followup in the reporting mechanism for these kids.
There has been no standardized, randomized double-blind trials of the current vaccine regimen. Individual vaccines, yes. But the entire schedule has never been tested, and there has been no follow-up. Every time I ask for this, I get a fudged answer.
At the back of this abusive schedule is money—pure and simple. More money for industry shareholders.
And the judge who withdrew the Legal Aid funding from families suing over the MMR in the 1990s? His brother sat on the board of directors for Glaxo.
The whole thing stinks to high heaven, and parents who refuse vaccines are more likely to have a high level of education, and scientific qualifications, than those who do not. Rather than rant on about ‘cognitive dissonance’ and ‘how do we gaslight educated people, tell us what to do, Medical Industrial Complex! They’re asking questions we can’t answer!’ adopt a safe schedule and stop poisoning these kids.
You won’t be posting this, because you’re not honest enough. You’re a bunch of ecopolitically motivated control freaks and you should be locked up.
VACCINES DISEASES IN SYRINGES, THEY ARE A CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY AND SO ARE YOU. THEY CAUSE MORE DISEASE THAN THEY PREVENT.
1% to 3% antivaxxers? I’ve got news for you. That figure is rapidly growing and will continue to exponentiate. People are getting wiser. Eventually, you won’t be able to sell a vaccine to a mangy dog and it cannot happen soon enough.
NOW EXAMINE THESE COMPONENTS:
1. Live virus – attenuated??? Attenuated virus vaccines, especially RNA types, DO NOT STAY ATTENUATED. THEY MUTATE.
SHOVE YOUR STINKING VACCINES IN THE FURNACE.
How about you list the actual chemical compounds of the components that your listing because that has a hell of a lot of impact on how they function in a solution. Fish has mercury in it, to be specific, methyl mercury (which is the deadly kind). The non-lethal mercury compound (ethyl mercury) is what is used as a preservative in vaccines. Aluminum, which is already present in your lungs, brain, kidneys, liver, and thyroid is necessary to keep these organs running smoothly. Nagalase is a naturally occurring enzyme in the human body that plays a roll in breaking down and transforming sugars into useful components for our bodies. NAGA is the abbreviation for Nagalase.
I’m so sad that I had seizures all day after a vaccine when I was a baby. The doctors wouldn’t even see me to try to stop the seizures. They told my mom it was a normal reaction and she shouldn’t worry. Now as an adult I have to always have a caretaker and I can barely remember my years with my children. How can people act like it’s just so obvious we must somehow convince skeptics that vaccines are safe? How could you ever convince people like me? And there are no records of my case because they didn’t want there to be any so they wouldn’t even help me!
Where is the peer reviewed research that shows 90% of scientists agree that vaccines are safe ? Subtle spin is still spin. Which scientists does this actually refer too. How was this magic figure of 90 % derived ? Look below the surface of who pays for the research and who owns the media that does most of the scaremongering and cherry picking regarding ‘outbreaks’ . The full facts surrounding the outbreaks and the constantly moving ‘herd immunity’ myth that is purported to be fact are as unscientific as the ‘healthy smoking’ spin that the same marketing people used to use. How about you start researching the actual adverse reactions data and recent court cases and you may smell a change in this 90 percent of scientists agree that vaccines are safe rotting carcass.
In a statistical analysis there’s this thing called a confidence interval. The most common confidence level used in statistical analysis of data is the 90% confidence interval. In the conclusion of the original scientific paper this data was pulled from the was probably a blurb that went along the lines of “this interval/data was calculated using a method that produces the accurate representation of the population 90 of 100 times”.
Families alone hold all the risk and the responsibility in regard to vaccine injury. Everybody else goes to the bank. Parental concerns deserve to be listened to and respected. Parents of vaccine injured children are not ‘anti-vaxxers’ they are ‘ex-vaxxers’ and they will never deny their own personal experience. When it happens to you, the risk is 100%.
Informed consent is written into Canadian law and as such, the subject of vaccine safety is still an open conversation. Up to now, parents (as well as most medical personnel) were not educated enough to recognize the various signs of vaccine injury. This omission of risk is a serious lack of ‘vaccine awareness’.
In the present day climate of fear mongering, bullying and coercion regarding vaccines; our citizens personal health is being reduced to a one-size-fits-all check-list on a bureaucrat’s clip board. The term Anti-Vax is being used to describe essentially, anyone who gives themselves permission to make a decision; for themselves, for their children about anything on that checklist. To allude to Voltaire; why are we not allowed to criticise?
Anti vaxxer, not only do you give yourself permission to make a decision for yourself and for your children, but also the people around you that might have a compromised immune system.
So I’m suppose to poison my child for yours? No thanks
The very first thing to do is realize that you are clueless about the actual science, are being spoonfed lies by media and uneducated doctors in bed with pharmaceutical corporations, and that you are poisoning your children with that toxic sludge as you spew your debunked nonsense.
The second thing to do is EDUCATE yourself. Start here:
What the vaccine industry hasn’t taken into consideration is that parents are waking up to the harm that is being done to their children. Parents whose children have been permanently harmed or killed by vaccines are refusing to be coerced into subjecting their children to more vaccines. They are “mad as hell and not taking it anymore”.
These same parents are refusing to be intimidated into silence by a captured and compliant media. The chants of “correlation does not equal causation” mean little when your once healthy child is experiencing uncontrolled seizures or requires 24-hour care for the rest of his or her life.
The outcome of this grand uncontrolled experiment is not in doubt. The blind faith and unearned trust in the vaccine paradigm and its high priests will come to a sudden and dramatic end. The vaccine industry will collapse under the weight of its own fraud, immorality and callous disregard.
The only question is how many more children will be injured or die before the awareness is substantive enough to cause this teetering structure to fall.
How does Herd immunity work, if we vaccinate only kids? Kids are only % of the herd. Also, since most vaccines are not 100% effective.. Even if everyone gets vaccinated(includibg adults) do we have that Herd Immunity? What is the percent for Herd Immunity? (92%, 96%, or 98%)
Could anyone provide me information about study/studies ( all) that prove the existence of Herd immunity. I just want to see how we got these data
I’d check out the CDCs page on herd immunity, they have some great information and links to studies and papers covering Herd Immunity. Here’s a link to the page that has some of the information: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/whatifstop.htm , the header “Vaccines don’t just protect yourself.” covers the topic you want
“How does Herd immunity work, if we vaccinate only kids? Kids are only % of the herd. ”
This is the typical dumb anti-vaxer anti-logic. It works because everybody is a child at one time and we vaccinate them during childhood. For things where immunity is not adequately retained or new strains are constantly emerging we vaccinate adults regularly too, i.e. influenza. You claim is a mixture of falsehood and ignoring the plain simple fact that everyone is a child at one time so by vaccinating all children we can vaccinate everyone Typical anti-vaxer BS 101.
Impressive piece! You all forgot to mention the payout/financial incentive that doctors receive for every fully vaccinated child. $400/child at 40-80 patients = $40,000 – $80,000 bonus.
Also, there has NEVER been a study that compared non-vaccinated population to fully, partially and single-vaccine vaccinated (except for this recent one: https://needtoknow.news/2017/05/first-ever-peer-reviewed-study-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-children-shows-vaccinated-kids-higher-rate-sickness-470-increase-autism/ ) Why oh why? Why ever could this be? Why are vaccine makers not liable for the poison they produce? Why do they only profit? Why are vaccines tested for “safety” for such a small window of time? Why are vaccines not held to the same standards as other drugs? Why is the vaccine market exploding? Why has VAERS paid out $3.5 billion dollars in compensation in the USA for killed/damaged human beings? (Compensation paid by the people,not the pharmaceuticals.) Why were the William Thomson documents destroyed (documents that showed a startling risk for autism in African American boys with the MMR vaccine)?
Dr. Wakefield has not been debunked. He was not anti-vax. He simply proposed a MMR non-combined vaccine. This was a threat to the vaccine industry. They went after him. Thus, doctors keep their mouths closed. Mercury is not safe in any amount, to inject into a body, let alone into a newborn. You know this.
Why are pregnant women not supposed to eat tuna (loaded with mercury), but they can supposedly safely be injected with it, plus numerous other toxins, diseased animal cells, aborted (dissective live) fetal cells, antibiotics, etc.etc.? There are a slew of thoughtfully made documentaries that have recently been released that address much of the fiction published in this piece. Also, many, many books, researched at the CDC, by highly educated people, such as doctors who had the ovaries/balls to step out and address the current holocaust, or the current vaccine schedule.
Beautiful load of propaganda, this piece. And yes, I’m one of those educated parents. Keep up the great work for the mighty pharmaceuticals! They’re the ones getting rich! Your children bear the toxic load and brain damage of this medical holocaust.
Would any of the authors of this piece buy a car from a company that offered absolutely no guarantee? Warrantee? Would you all want to buy a car from a company that had been proven to produce defective vehicles, but now you were required by law to buy a life-threatening car where the maker had absolutely no liability? No of course not! Would you force your mother, father, sister, friend, uncle, finance to buy a car that was from a crooked car dealer, where they would have no rights after the sale?
How much were you all paid to write this piece? How do you feel about your contribution to humanity? Would the authors of this piece voluntarily inject themselves with a “catchup” vaccine schedule (as they missed the 2017 vaccine schedule as it is currently proposed for kids)? Would you all drink formaldehyde, mercury, aborted fetal cells, mercury, aluminum, and the many, many other ingredients in a single vaccine? Would you INGEST it, or INJECT it? Please do so, then write a follow up piece sharing your results with the public.
The only entity who wins in the vaccine equation is the vaccine maker, the pharmaceuticals (who will be selling their drugs to a sick population for life), and the doctors, who receive their bonus. It’s a multi-billion dollar industry… and it’s growing! The children of planet earth are the ones who lose, and you three are not helping.
Why does 1 in 56 children now have autism? Better diagnosis? Please! Why do older people not have autism? Oh, they received 1-3 vaccines, not 50+! The USA has one of the highest infant mortality rates in the world for a developed country. It also has the highest rate of vaccinations. It also is a country that promotes fear at every step. People are locked away in their sad little lives, listening to the TV, overwhelmed with the load of bull they daily have to process.
Have any of you actually read a vaccine insert? I suggest you do so immediately! It’s not too late to change the direction of your life’s work, Milne, Caulfield, Tepper. Grow a pair and start thinking for yourselves. Find a better way to make a living than prostituting yourselves out for an industry that does not give two f***ks about you. I dare you to go to whoever paid you to write this piece and ask for the study that shows vaccines are 100% safe. How fast do you think you’ll be out of a paycheck?
If you want to help people, then go for it. Earn your dollars from a non-pharmaceutical. Propose long, thorough studies on vaccines. Campaign to get dead babies, toxic metals, diseased animal cells, and the other sludge out of vaccines. Offer yourselves as test subjects if you must. And please, get a grip about your dream of a world dictatorship where three nitwits fantasize about no one having the legal right to their own body sovereignty! Unbelievable! Or better yet, channel your literary energies into futuristic romance novels with a vaccine slant. There is undoubtedly a market for it. It could start like this:
2020 Was HOT
“It was the year 2020. Franco had recently been fully vaccinated. He felt so hot. He loved to think about the nanoparticles of heavy metals adhered to his cells. In fact, he felt so hot he just had to have Celine, today. Celine, who had also recently been fully vaccinated, was, like Franco, allowed to go to school. Thus, they had both been educated.
Their attraction was strong. They would play doctor. Sometimes, Franco would pretend he was the one giving the vaccines. Other times, it was Celine. They really got off on this. Of course, they had both received the vaccine to protect against imagination, so they often just sat around playing doctor, over and over.
“Are you current on your vaccines?” Celine would whisper coyly. Franco would stare in his dead-eyed way at her, feeling things he did not know how to express. So he’d just look out the window. Sometimes a drop of saliva would drip out of his open mouth.
“Oh, there, there,” Celine would coo. (She had the same problem too, but not as badly.)
Sometimes a scientist would stop by their house and check to make sure they were playing doctor right. Because how could anyone know how to do anything without an industry expert to consult?”
Beautifully written. Many important issues succinctly broached with such eloquence that I’m actually a bit jealous.
If you’re still vaccinating your kids, now would be a good time to stop.
Unvaccinated Children Have Much Lower Rates of Chronic Illness, Jackson State Study Finds
— Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.
“The study suggests that fully vaccinated children may be trading the prevention of certain acute illnesses (measles, chicken pox, pertussis) for more chronic illnesses and neurodevelopmental disorders like ADHD and autism.”
VAccines have been declared, ‘unavoidably unsafe’ by the United States Supreme Court. This pronouncement is clear and unambiguous. If the individual components in a vaccine ( aluminum, mercury, formaldehyde, glyphosate, polysorbate 80, human and animal tissue, etc) are harmful, a vaccine which is the combination of these ingredients cannot be safe.
I’d like to see a case brief on the subject you’re quoting here. If you could post a link to the case that’d be great, I’m just a little confused on why the Supreme Court would be ruling on the safety of an issue and not the constitutionality of it, as is their job.
A sure sign of a made up claim with regard to court precedents is failure to cite the alleged case.
HERE’S HOW VACCINES BECOME MANDATORY IN THE U.S….
Mandatory Meningitis Vaccine Bill Author Caught Red-Handed Taking $420k From Big Pharma
State Senator Kemp Hannon, Chair of the New York Senate Health Committee, and author of the recently passed law that will require all seventh and twelfth graders in the state to get meningitis shots, has been caught with his hand in the pot, according to the New York Daily News: specifically, the pharma pot. And to no small sum, mind you. His investments in pharmaceutical and health companies is at $100,000 while it is also being alleged that he has received more than $400,000 from the same interest groups. Hannon’s investments are a direct conflict of interest and he should be charged criminally. This is an act of using your position to influence and write laws for the sole result of personal gain.
As opposed to the father of the anti-vaccine movement Andrew Wakefield who never took any money to change the data from his study of 12 children (which is not a sufficient sample size for any real scientific study), ever, in his life.
NEW STUDY VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM, LEUKEMIA, LYMPHOMAS: Journal of Public Health and Epidemiology.
Directly from the doctor’s bible, the Merck Manual…
“Encephalitis is inflammation of the brain that occurs when a virus directly infects the brain or when a virus, vaccine, or something else triggers inflammation. The spinal cord may also be involved, resulting in a disorder called encephalomyelitis.”
Encephalitis is the first step leading to autism. Correction: It’s the second step. The first step is vaccinating.
A new study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association has found an increase in cases of autism for babies born to mothers who received a flu vaccination in the first trimester, yet headlines elsewhere are reporting that no link was found.
Correlation is not causation. There is a strong correlation between frequent cigarette lighter use and lung cancer too but I’m pretty sure it’s the cigarettes causing the cancer not the lighters.
Doctors Are Being Trained to Manipulate Parents About Vaccines
Vaccine Industry Placebo-Controlled Studies Are Nothing Less Than Criminal
Here’s proof that the vaccine industry CANNOT be trusted with your children’s lives: their safety studies don’t compare vaccines with a neutral placebo. The placebo they use contains the same ingredients suspected (known) to cause encephalitis and other health issues. So when the results are compared, the vaccine and placebo show the same results.
If they used a true placebo, the difference would be so dramatic that the vaccine industry would have to admit they’d been poisoning children for decades.
Good work Walter. Thanks for your information and contributions to waking people up.
Some Say Vaccines are Essential. Some Say They’re Evil. If you have children or grandchildren, you deserve the facts to make your own informed choices.
Anyone out there studying medicine? Ask your pharma-controlled professors why I had 8 shots as a child and today children need 74 shots before age 18?
And be sure to press him or her for the medical justification that 74 shots are required, and proven safe and effective.
Follow-up question: why aren’t vaccines tested for carcinogenicity or mutagenicity.
When your pharma-controlled professors can’t answer any of these questions, you’ll know we’re absolutely correct in not vaccinated our children.
Including yearly influenza there are roughly 55 birth to 18 and it’s because many more disease are vaccinated against now. There was no Hepatitis, Meningitis, HPV, Influenza, etc vaccines when many of us grew up. That doesn’t meany they are a bad thing.
BOOSTERS ARE A HOAX USED TO BOOST VACCINE SALES.
Your crazy man
WANTED BY THE FEDS: Poul Thorsen, Who Helped Pull Off CDC Vaccine Autism Heist
Interesting how the media won’t stop mentioning Wakefield yet this convicted fraud is never mentioned… or caught, even though the FBI knows where he is.
The Vaccine Coverup: 30 Years of Secret Official Transcripts Show UK Government Cover Up Vaccine Hazards “To Sell More Vaccines And Harm Your Kids”
“If I were to take the same schedule as my child is expected to get it would be the equivalent of me getting 400 vaccines over 18 months(120 separate injections plus the rotavirus doses)(male, 500 vaccines, around 150 separate injections plus the rotavirus doses). I believe that the more unconscionable action would be to subject my children to something I wouldn’t subject myself to.”
Would you take the entire infant scheduele adjusted to your body weight?
Parents pay attention. The vaccines are for profit, not for health.
It’s even worse. It’s one size fits all. That 6 lb baby gets the same dose as the 200 lb man.
In Australia, they are making parents vaccinate their teenage children, with the entire childhood vaccination schedule, in order to get family benefits.
Why don’t people get polio anymore then? Give me one good explanation that’s medically founded.
Recent article announced: “Polio-like illness is on the rise with 87 possible cases
Formal case counts can take days or weeks as doctors double-check symptoms against CDC guidelines.”
“The patients’ symptoms have been most similar to complications of infection with certain viruses, including poliovirus, non-polio enteroviruses, adenoviruses, and West Nile virus,” the CDC says”. What are the symptoms of polio?
Surprisingly, 95% of all individuals infected with polio have no apparent symptoms.
Another 4%–8% of infected individuals have symp- toms of a minor, non-specific nature, such as sore throat and fever, nausea, vomiting, and other com- mon symptoms of any viral illness.
About 1%–2% of infected individuals develop non- paralytic aseptic (viral) meningitis, with temporary stiffness of the neck, back, and/or legs. Less than 1% of all polio infections result in the classic “flaccid paralysis,” where the patient is left with permanent weakness or paralysis of legs, arms, or both.“Although most cases of polio are mild, the 1% of cases resulting in flaccid paralysis has made polio a feared disease for hundreds of years. Of people with paralytic polio, about 2%–5% of children die and up to 15%–30% of adults die.”. Also… accordind to “immunize.org” , Why was the U.S. polio immunization recom- mendation changed from OPV to IPV?
“The change to an all-IPV schedule in the United States occurred because the few cases of polio that were occurring (8–10 per year) were caused by the OPV vaccine itself and not the wild virus. “ Based on these facts from the CDC and other credible sources, the majority of the population is to give up our rights to not get vacinnated due to less than 1% of the cases “reported” coming down with a more serious disease and out of that 1% only 2% to 5% of children die from it. The same goes for all the other diseases! So in order for that 2% to 5% of the 1%” that has contracted a more serious form of polio virus, the majority of the population have to put their health at risk (ADHD, mental health disorders, autism spectrum,cancers…….etc.)? And I’m not limiting this to the polio virus either. Do some extensive , credible, research on all the other diseases. Other than the pharmaceutical companies and their investors making trillions of dollars off of our “fear” for our health, it makes absolutely no sense. In that case, we should literally “force” everyone to eat healthy organic foods, exercise daily, eliminate the use of all toxins, cigarettes, unnessesary over the counter medicines known to cause kidney and liver problems, alcohol, eliminate automobiles, guns, knives, etc…. in order to altogether eliminate all unnecessary deaths. If governments were truly interested in an individuals health and not money , then there would be a lot of things “ eliminated” from our lives, not “added”. The more vaccines they make and force upon us, the richer they get. It is the huge companies that make billions/trillions of dollars that control every aspect of our government and almost every aspect of our lives. I’m not saying that a vaccine would never be needed. There is a time and place for everything. But if it never ends, our children, and soon adults, will be forced to be injected on a regular basis with 100’s of these toxic vaccinations. Chicken pox vaccine? Flu vaccine? What’s next? Common Cold vaccine? Pink eye vaccine? And for those who say very few have been harmed by vaccinations, open up your eyes! How many times have you brought your child into the doctors office when they were experiencing an illness or siesures etc. and the doctor asked you about the child’s vacinnations? It would probably be safe to say, “Never”.
Lemme guess. Your parents vaccinated you but now I think you’re a mother. You don’t vaccinate your kids because you think it’s for profit. There are insurance companies that cover most of the cost of vaccines. Most do not cost that much. You are putting your child or children at risk of illness and you’ll be lucky if your kid doesn’t hate you for putting them at risk. Most schools require them to be vaccinated due to that kid being at risk and potentially putting other children at risk. A child’s immune system isn’t that strong. Open your eyes and actually be a parent.
From Dr. Andrew Moulden:
Through my extensive research and my work throughout the years, I have discovered that vaccinations are causing impaired blood flow (ischemia) to brain and body from clinically silent to death. These are strokes – across the board for all of us. I have reason to believe that all are being affected and all vaccinations ARE causing the overwhelming rise in autism, specific learning disabilities, attention deficit disorders, sudden infant death, gulf war syndrome, dementia, seizure disorders, some cancers it would appear, and much much more.
All I can say as a journalist you should be ashamed of this article???
You have NOT done your homework you don’t know what you are talking about
The polio vaccine was predicated to cause a cancer epidemic.
Paralytic polio was suspected to be caused by a break in the soft tissue while suffering from flu like symptoms. This includes GIVING any form of injection including a vaccine.
According to the mayo clinic many people did not know they even had polio.
Newfoundland and Labrador has the highest vaccination rate in Canada. Our numbers actually meet herd immunity percentages. We also have the highest rate of cancer.
The chances of dying with polio in NL in 1959 was 1 in 22,500.
The chances of dying with cancer in NL in 2016 was 1 in 358. The chances of being diagnosed was 1 in 133.
An “iron lung” is a respirator. It helped people breathe when they couldn’t on their own. Since we have evolved we have many types of “iron lungs”. Puffers, sleep apnea machines, home oxygen, to name a few. Even an epi pen.
Vaccine manufacturers have stated on their actual vaccine inserts that vaccines are only studied for 42 days for adverse reactions. The vaccine is also ONLY studied against the SAME ingredients in the vaccine except the virus. This means it isn’t actually studied against an actual placebo.
The MMR and DPTP state ON the manufactuers insert that these have not been studied for safety with regards to being injected on the same day. It is assumed to be safe. But our medical system do give them on the same day to our 12 month olds.
The MMR has adverse reactions that include eating disorders. How many children have issues eating after they turn 1? Do you honestly think this is coincidental?
Our health system also does not follow a proper system to ensure they are following the severe adverse reactions. Children see a public health nurse, they end up in ER or at GP office and no one questions when they last had a vaccine. ANY change in a persons health that develops after a vaccine should be reported. ESPECIALLY if it is within the 42 days! If you took a Tylenol and got sick you would question the Tylenol. Why do we not question the aluminum, polysorbate 80, formaldehyde and so on in vaccines. Not to mention they contain adjuvants which come from food sources and those food sources are sprayed with Roundup and other chemicals. Therefore vaccines are contamined. Scientists have released numbers from when all the vaccines.
Do you think you could convince me to choose a possibility of getting cancer over getting polio with these numbers? The fact that no long term studies exist. Forget autism. I’m more worried about the number one thing killing most of our population. From our newborns to our elderly!!!!! And guess what they ALL have in common…..vaccines! Because they all come from different environments, different drinking waters, food sources, etc.
So by the process of elimination, the ONE thing all these people do have in common is vaccines.
#1, Most “anti-vaxxers” were once pro-vaccine. Then they witnessed the damage. You’re not going to change the mind of a parent of a child with vaccine injuries. Vaccine “hesitant” is just a term that doctors use to avoid calling someone an “anti-vaxxer.” The label you give people who have researched vaccines and decided not to inject their children or themselves is irrelevant. Call me anything you want, it won’t change my mind. #2, Autism is only ONE of the possible damaging effects of vaccines. Wakefield has very-little to do with why people refuse to inject known toxins into their children. That is just something ignorant pro-vaccine like to use as a scape goat instead of actually doing any research. #3, Distortions in the science? Science is facts if a fact is distorted it’s a lie. If there is a risk, then the parent should be choosing which risk is more concerning to them. That is medical autonomy. The government does not own the people. The National CHildren’s Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 says that vaccines are unavoidably unsafe and the government chose to protect the manufacturer’s, health care workers from liability. Why should anyone be forced to use a product they know is unsafe, and they are not liable for damages? #4, Herd immunity? Immune systems are for personal use only. My immune system is not going to say to the guy next to me, I see you’ve been exposed to measles. Here are some antibodies to help you out. This is basic science. Vaccinated does not mean immune. It use to take ONE measles shot to be considered “immune” to measles. At the moment they are saying it takes two, but there are so many outbreaks in vaccinated people, they are saying well, maybe it’s three. They now are giving FIVE doses of Dtap. Why? Because the vaccine is not developing immunity. In the 50’s fully vaccinated was five doses of vaccines, now it is over 70. There are over 270 vaccines being tested. How many will it take to be fully vaccinated (does not equal immune) in 10 years? #5 Real stories : #vaxxed #wedid #regret #6, Parents are NOT confused. They are learning the truth about vaccines. They aren’t being lemmings and following the previous guy off the cliff. The government does not own the people. The people have medical autonomy, the right to informed consent and the right to refuse treatment. They also have religious freedom, and vaccines are made using things that violate the personal conscience. (Aborted fetal tissues, animal tissues- pig, dog, cow, hamster, monkey, just to name a few.) #7 Trust? You want me to trust the doctor when the doctor hasn’t even studied vaccines in medical school? When he has no idea what adverse reactions to vaccines are? When he doesn’t even know what is in the vaccine he is telling me to inject my child with? When he doesn’t know how much aluminum is in the vaccine or how much is safe to inject? When he doesn’t know what Polysorbate 80 does to the BBB, or what happens when it is mixed with other toxins? When he tries to compare safety of ingestion to safety of injection? (I may be able to drink milk, but that doesn’t make it safe to inject it!) When the vaccine inserts say “…has not been evaluated for its carcinogenic or mutagenic potential or impairment of fertility.”? When I know more about vaccines than the doctor or nurse giving them, their opinion isn’t relevant.
The only way I will change my mind. Is when the ingredients posted on cdc’s website changes as well. My son will not be injected with mercury,aluminum,formaldehyde. I can go on. But that toxic shit has no place in his body or anyone else. Stop brainwashing and pushing your garbage on people.
You mean G8 country right?
Quebec offers compensation, and the rest of Canada should follow suite with proper government.
…also long term studies are incredibly expensive. there’s already lots of hard work that goes into making sure vaccines are safe, which is really not an easy job. I hate the anti-vaccine rhetoric because it discredits the hard work of medical professionals. its not an easy job.
whoops wrong thread
1. Parents are becoming aware that their are risks to vaccines higher then the diseases themselves. Autism is a risk if you read vaccine inserts it is written by the CDC on the insert so how it’s been debunked is mind blowing when they even claim it to Be a risk.
2. Anti vaxxers are ex vaxxers who have witnessed their children or themselves experience an adverse reaction to these awful things.
3. How do you know that the kids win autoimmune problems have autoimmune problems until after you’ve given the shots ?! They are injected at Day 1 of birth with no testing to see if they should even have them or are allergic to anything in them.
4. I think it’s sad you pray on the weak to try and convince them how amazing these things are they aren’t good they don’t do what they say. 1 in 68 kids get autism that number is skyrocketing and the change to adtribute to that is the increase in vaccines … Infant mortality rate is insanely high. The flu vaccine kills something like 25,000 Canadians a year..
Wake up people population control at its finest creating sick people for money and greed … we live in a sick twisted world if you can read grab a vaccine insert and then make informed decisions on what you want to put in your body and your kids bodies .. I choose life
Amen sister couldnt have said it better myself.
Yes! Thank you for your comment! People need to wake up to what is happening with vaccines, and many only learn the hard way, when their children are injured.
Yes! Thank you! Great points
As long as Canada remains the only G7 country that doesn’t compensate vaccine injuries, how do you honestly expect to build trust.
As long as there continues to be not a single study to compare overall long term overall health outcomes between only fully vaccinated and never vaccinated individuals (IOM, 2013), how can you expect parents to believe you when you lie and say vaccinating results in overall healthier adults?
Let’s convince people of a myth so they can inject aluminum, MSG, etc. into their newborn babies on behalf of Merck, Pfizer, Baxter, and GSK’s bottom line because they just want to help people be heathy and eradicate disease along with their billions in annual profit and blank government cheques.
Yes! Thank you for commenting!
Perhaps these authors should investigate the vaccination status of those being infected with measles.
” The state health department spokesperson in Massachusetts, after a Harvard University mumps outbreak in 2016, said, “the infected students had all been vaccinated against mumps.” https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/04/26/harvard-mumps-outbreak-grows-cases/dLW4RTngYHl2elJivMO3LL/story.html
Furthermore they may also wish to disclose that Pharma giant Merck is currently facing charges regarding fraudulent misrepresentation of the effectiveness of the MMR vaccine, drug company http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/merck-whistleblowers_b_5881914.ht
This article began progressively and then descended into a concerning endorsement of sanctioning the removal of constitutional entitlements to choice
Before we marginalize those with opposing voices concerning vaccination perhaps we should ACTUALLY listen?
It is a matter of public record that the American Supreme Court deemed vaccines unavoidably unsafe(https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/09-152.pdf) and as a result vaccine manufacturers are exempt from liability.
Furthermore, several vaccines such as the flu vaccine go to market without adequate testing – an unheard of practice that warrants public concern
The following excerpt from Harvard magazine( http://harvardmagazine.com/2004/05/mercury-on-the-brain.html) details research on the impact of neurotoxins such as mercury and other related neurotoxic compounds found in some vaccines. .
Grandjean also found that mercury could threaten children’s nervous systems well into adolescence. “What we are finding out is that mercury is very parallel to lead,” Grandjean says. “Such pollutants are particularly worrisome because, once they’ve done the damage to the developing brain, the child will have to live with that for the rest of his life.”
A 2017 paper published in the Lancet (http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laneur/article/PIIS1474-4422(13)70278-3/abstract )states the following updated conclusion : To control the pandemic of developmental neurotoxicity, we propose a global prevention strategy. Untested chemicals should not be presumed to be safe to brain development, and chemicals in existing use and all new chemicals must therefore be tested for developmental neurotoxicity. To coordinate these efforts and to accelerate translation of science into prevention, we propose the urgent formation of a new international clearinghouse.
Worth thinking about ?
Or God forbid would that make you an Antivaxer? Anyone who seeks transparency and disclosure regarding vaccines is one didn’t you know ?
Yes! And yet they write articles like this one about how to tell us to just be quiet! MAYBE SOMEONE ought to just do the actual science! Of course this will not happen while certain individuals are making truckloads of money on the way it is now.
Very well said. This entire thread starting with Leslie’s points and now yours. I am not an antivaxxer, I am an ex-vaxxer. After being personally harmed and seeing our son harmed, I began researching. And that folks is what really scares everyone. Because vaccine research is a Pandora’s box that cannot be closed. Open it for yourself. Go on. I dare you. Anyone who wants to understand the research, can. If there is any actual desire to learn the truth, it is easy to find. I dare you. Open the box
I did. Found a bunch of hooey.
Andrew wakefield started your whole movement for money from a law firm and based it on a study where he used 12 children, some of whom were already sick. Then used them to perpetuate a false narrative. Ever wonder why he’s not allowed to practice medicine anymore? Ever wonder why he came out of hiding right as Vaxxed came out to promote his “measles only” vaccine? Maybe for money?
But I’m vaccinated, my entire family is vaccinated, and we’re all fine. How do you explain that?
Correlation does not equal causation.
I eat breakfast every day before I go to work. But I don’t go to work because I eat breakfast. It just so happens that I do those two things every day. But one does not cause the other.
Wow. Very good work.
Wanna learn how to talk to “US” Some honesty would help.
The pervasive monoculture of “obey your vaccine” is dangerous and groupthink mentality that “we” can’t possibly be wrong is how every scientific and human atrocity has ever been indulged.
Most of the general public will succumb to the dogma, however as you have mentioned it is the more affluent and educated parents who step back to critically vaccination – Let’s just look at the flu vaccine for an example as to why these individuals should not trust you – The Osterholm et al ( 2012) Lancet meta analysis revealed that flu research is poorly conducted ( only 30 studies out of 33,000) were credibly conducted and there was not a SINGLE RCT to support that vaccination for influenza reduces illness, mortality and morbidity in older adults and children under 8. The Cochrane, regarded as bullet proof resources in all other matters, have said the same for years and yet they are ignored when it comes to the flu vaccine because the discourse contrasts the groupthink.
Healthcare workers are forcefully vaccinated for influenza when the DeSerres et al (2017) meta analysis eviscerated the garbage RCT’s that have been flogged to support this coercive facade for years. ( the Cochrane has again said the same thing for years) Children are targeted for flu vaccine campaigns despite a paucity of good evidence and yet the vaccine has behaved unpredictably in this vulnerable population. Febrile seizures saw the vaccine pulled in multiple countries. The adjuvanted vaccine of the 2009 season was a dangerous failure that left 1 in 55,000 European children with permanent brain damage. Canadian children were also afflicted with permanent disability. Sixty people received multimillion pound payouts from the British government after brain damage, most victims were children, 6 were healthcare workers. Cowling et al (2012) found flu vaccinated children had increased rhinovirus and coxsackie/echovirus
The delicacies of our immune system are still greatly misunderstood, yet those who pound the pulpit about the absolute “safety” of the flu vaccine proceed with reckless disregard. Osterholm says “ We have to be careful about what we are intend to accomplish” The Cochrane review on vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy adults concluded that, “Although serious harm from vaccination may be rare it cannot be ignored and conclude that the results of their literature review discourage the utilization of vaccination against influenza in healthy adults as a routine measure.”
The constant assurance that the “flu vaccine is absolutely safe” is irresponsible. No medication comes without sides effects. The flu vaccine has the largest Adjudicated pay out for vaccine injury in the United States with 70% of vaccine injury over a 6 month period. 37 out of 72 cases are guillan barre ( Report from the US Department of Justice )
Since 2009 the enigma of repeat vaccination and paradoxical vaccine reactions have been described by many researchers. Skowronski described the “Canadian phenomenon” which saw H1N1 vaccination promote influenza infections. Looks like yearly vaccinations are indeed counterproductive and the serially vaccinated are at higher risk for illness.
The flu vaccine efficacy was reported to be 80% then 60%.in reality the vaccine has not eeked about 50% in the past decade.
A scared population can be talked into anything Flu deaths are grossly exaggerated to instill fear to the public based on faulty scientific models, one year, ALL winter deaths were counted as flu deaths ( I am not kidding, see Crowe 2012 “flu death reality check” )Influenza is a minority illness during the season and Flu deaths are likely exaggerated by as much as 10x
I have presented a lot of information ( sorry) on the flaws of just ONE vaccine to illustrate why you will never regain credibility on this issue until you take off your own blinders that we have a gross lack of ideological diversity on the vaccine issue. If the government and our doctors would so blatantly misrepresent the value of this vaccine WHY the hell would any critically thinking parent NOT be suspicious?
References not in order
De Serres et al (2017) Influenza vaccination of healthcare workers Critical analysis of evidence. http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0163586
Schabas and Rua (2015) are we taking the flu shot too seriously? https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/are-we-taking-the-flu-shot-too-seriously/article22602526/?arc404=true
Canadian Medical Journal (2015). Repeated flu shots may blunt effectiveness.
Retrieved at http://www.cmaj.ca/content/early/2015/03/02/cmaj.109-5000.full.pdf+html
Thomas RE, Jefferson T, Lasserson TJ.(2013). Influenza vaccination for healthcare workers who care for people aged 60 or older living in long-term care institutions. Cochrane Database Syst Rev Jul 22;7.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD001269.pub5/pdf -healthy adults
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD004876.pub3/abstract – seniors
Cowling et al., (2012). Increased risk of non-influenza respiratory virus infections associated with receipt of inactivated influenza vaccine. Clinical Infectious Disease. doi: 10.1093/cid/cis307 Retrieved at http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2012/03/13/cid.cis307
Ng A & Lai , C (2011). Effectiveness of seasonal influenza vaccination in healthcare workers: A systematic review. Journal of Hospital Infection. 79(4):279-86 Retrieved at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0035156/
Osterholm, M. , Kelley N., Sommer A, Belongia EA. (2012) Efficacy and effectiveness of influenza vaccines: a systematic review and meta‐analysis. Lancet Infect Dis Jan Retrieved from http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099%2811%2970295-X/abstract
Osterholm et al, Center for Infectious Disease and Practice/ Osterholm (2012) The Compelling Case for a Game-Changing Influenza Vaccine – Chapter 3 and 7 pages 54 to 60
Crowe, K. (2012). Flu death reality check. CBC at http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/flu-deaths-reality-check-1.1127442
Not going to work. The cat’s out of the bag. Parents who have done their own research know that the “scientific consensus” people are more than happy to risk other people’s children to the harms of vaccines. It’s a risk the “scientific”community is willing to take!!!! If your kid gets autism or some other neurological problem, that’s fine with them, I mean you can’t sue them so whatever!
So which vaccine causes autism? Chicken pox? Polio? Hepatitis? Tetanus? All different formulas and chemicals. What causes autism?
You understood nothing for good!!!!! OMG
Apparently “big pharma” is claiming it’s genetics….luck of the draw….
All vaccine hesitant parents should be listed on databases worldwide, it’s ok to hide behind a computer and only seek out information that backs your own beliefs…common sense has left the building….
I feel like it’s such a passionate topic because it’s so insane…imagine arguing with someone that the sky is red and the ocean is orange
I also love how you do your own research, that’s the funniest thing ever, you mean you googled “vaccines and autism” and found what you wanted to hear? Or did you actually do clinical studies, tested each varienr of product in a vaccine, using a double blind method and years of waiting to gather data?
There is no double blind studies on vaccines they are considered “un-ethical”
Yes, Leslie! All of this and more!
Bravo! What I find so interesting is that so many who question vaccines have researched, use intelligent arguments, and do not seem to be affected by the propaganda of fear. You are a case in point. On the other hand, I find most vaccine advocates using fear, marketing ploys and false information ad nauseam. Things like adverse events only happen to one in a million children or that vaccines are not very profitable. Statements with zero credibility. That says to me that one side is pouring over information searching for truth while the other side seems to be satisfied with anything that fits inside their preconceived belief system.
Your comment was incredibly researched and intelligent. Parents deserve the truth. They are not getting it. This is why they are railing against vaccines. I haven’t heard a parent yet who mentions Andrew Wakefield as a reason for hesitancy. But they do mention a child with a vaccine injury or a family member’s child or a friend’s child. These injuries are what I believe is driving the hesitancy, which is driving the research, which is ultimately driving the decision not to vaccinate.
In reality the vaccines are based on scientific and medically proven data. The anti vaccine arguments are based on pseudoscience and fear mongering.
I’d love to talk to you more Leslie!
Thanks to Sue and all those who took the time to comment.
LoL I guess the author of this article didn’t really learn how to speak to us huh? ;)
One of your sources, Crowe 2012, does not exist. Wanted to make sure I read everything.
I roll my eyes at you and anyone who agrees with you.
I think most of my coworkers and I agree that the flu shot is mostly a crapshoot. The vaccine is formulated a year before based on models of how the virus is expected to behave the next year. Obviously it mutates before it shows up again and the vaccine is rendered far less effective (moreso against FluA, vs FluB or vice versa). But we are healthcare workers and are required to get it to be cleared to do our job. We get it to protect the patient, not us. So we do it no matter what the risk may be and whether or not its 100% effective. We also have to get the HepB shot series to be employed in the county hospital, like it or not. And those hurt like a bitch. Would I do it again to do my job and help people? Absolutely. Without question.
People are being honest with you anti-vaxxers, it’s just that many of you refuse to even listen and claim that reputable sources and people who are pro-vaccine are always lying. You cannot refuse to listen to someone and then claim that what they are telling you isn’t true. You need to hear them first and consider their words.
Also, please review your post and evaluate how hypocritical your statements are. Thank you.
Excellent article, thanks for the overview on cognitive and omission biases and suggestions to address through working with confirmation bias, adding narratives to statistic/ evidence driven risk communication(s) and CPS recommendations for Motivational Interviewing (MI). Have used a few of these techniques in practice and find very beneficial to the patient-HCP relationship.
If you’re serious and sincere about using narratives, be sure to listen to a few of the narratives of doctors who have educated themselves after seeing their own vaccinated patients develop regressive autism or die suddenly following routine vaccinations. Most “anti-vaxxers” were once highly motivated vaccine adherents who trusted people like you, were not given a true “informed consent,” didn’t know that the ingredients have not been safety-tested, and that there “acquired herd immunity,” even if it were possible, is completely different from the concept of natural herd immunity.
Quoting this article – “One of the misperceptions is that people don’t get their kids immunized because they simply don’t understand,” he says. But people who don’t vaccinate are often more educated than the general public, and better off as well.”
Spend a little time listening to a few of the thousands of narratives collected by the “We are Vaxxed” team. They are readily available on YouTube and FB. If you do that coupled with your own research at PubMed, or even the CDC, I hope you will have a broader picture than the narrow scope of this propagandist article offers.
agreed… people tend to wake up once their child or themselves have been vaccine injured regrettably. Then they start to read the literature, they did not know existed and hear the testimonies of others who have suffered the same outcome. They come to appreciate the true meaning of what Informed Consent involves.
There is absolutely no evidence to uphold the belief that vaccines cause autism or other life altering outcomes. Of course as with ANY medication there is a very small percentage of the population who may experience a negative for effect, but to say that these adverse events are common is simply untrue.
Increased incidence of diabetes, ADD/ADHD, autism etc are caused by a much more dynamic course of events throughout the early days of a child’s life…
– a child is born via C-section reducing their exposure to natural bacteria thus they cannot develop immunity.
– that same child is then formula fed. They do not receive any immunity in the form of breast milk.
– that same infant is then taken out in public to large family gatherings etc as is customary in today’s society…. and inevitably that baby gets a cold.
– this baby has poor gut heath caused by the cows milk formula he/she has been drinking since birth… when given an antibiotic to fight the illness he/she has contracted the baby’s gut health deteriorates further.
– the baby gets “better” but within a couple of weeks comes back as they now have diarrhea and are given another antibiotic.
– once they “recover” they come in for their first round of immunizations.
– everything is fine seemingly. However in the next few months the gut health continues to worsen due to the allergens in the dairy and lack of natural probiotics, maybe they get sick again and are on another med.
– 6 or 9 month immunizations are given and… the inflamed gut that has been worsening since birth sends a signal to the brain. The baby’s body is not healthy and the vaccine which in most other children would be handled without issue pushes this poor baby’s body over the edge. The gut responds by sending more inflammatory messages… the brain swells and bam! Permanent damage!
The moral of this story is simple! You cannot blame increases in childhood health declines on vaccines!!! There are so many more issues with the entire system…. we are taking shortcuts…. not breastfeeding, prescribing too many antibiotics, the food is all synthetic and full of hormones and antibiotics… it’s disgusting. It’s just so much easier to place all the blame on the vaccine than it is to recognize the big problem!
One problematic incident does not mean it will always happen. You view yourself and those important to you as the center of the world (as does everybody else), but that is not truly the case. You cannot advocate for everyone. It is fine to be hesitant, but please still be receptive of the possible benefits of vaccination. It does no one any good if you close your eyes and ears.
Show me a single article on pubmed showing cases of people dying from a vaccine, or developing autism
A lot of volatile passion is all I get when I see pro-vaccine or anti-vaccination comments. It’s hard to listen to someone who is yelling all the time. It automatically makes one defensive. Not very productive of either side.
Whenever it comes to these, everyone is out to prove the other wrong and has no care about the middle. That’s just how life is.
Right and Wrong
Black and White
Straight and Gay
Male and Female
Sorry to anyone I have offended, I was just making a point about these ridiculous arguments everyone gets into.
Mandate is loosing your freedom to your own body and deciding for your own children! When 95% of the children were getting the measles, there was naturally herd immunity! Acces to clean water, healthy food should be of our concern. Nature gave us free herd immunity, now vaccinating cost society incredible amounts of money which is also earned by major companies who are not concerned at all with your health, just with profit….!!! It is also the only medical procedure for healthy people and believe me no medical procedure is without risks!
If by “free herd immunity” you mean killing off all the susceptible individuals… thankfully reasonable people don’t advocate for this approach in the 21st century.
It’s worth noting that many of the outbreaks of disease we’ve had in this country have been in fully vaccinated areas. Vaccinated individuals are carriers of the diseases.
Wrong Jana many outbreaks are from unvaccinated people who contracted the diseases, some from unvaccinated travellers bring the diseases back into the area/country
Bulldust. LAVVs (Live Attenuated Virus Vaccines) include Polio, Influenza B, MMR and a host of others. Yes, that’s LIVE VIRUS. “Attenuated” sounds good on paper, but since these are mainly RNA viruses, the mutation rate when they are reproduced in the human body is staggeringly high. They DO NOT STAY ATTENUATED. THEY MUTATE. Basically, vaccinated people are disease carriers, which means that whether or not they, themselves are affected directly by the LIVE DISEASE they are given by injection, they are the ones to whom anyone should look when there is an outbreak. There are emerging statistics and independent studies not controlled by the pharmaceutical corporations and these are increasing in number. They even appear to be exponentiating and with the Internet phenomenon, Big Pharma can no longer control the bad publicity they are getting from these studies. The victims of vaccines are numberless. There are too many of them. But the days of the vaccine are NUMBERED.
We’re losing reasonable people by the hundreds day-by-day
Nature gave people polio, where you lost ability to walk, and talk and people died. No herd immunity for polio.
Hey John, Polio infections actually went undetected in the vast number of infected. There were no symptoms and no lasting effects except the lasting natural immunity in most. It’s actually only approximately 0.5% of cases that developed into any degree of immobility or paralysis and of that 0.5% only 2-5% of the children and 30% of the adults actually died. Natural herd immunity to the polio virus actually was a very real thing as the overwhelming majority of those exposed to it went on to live healthy active lives with lifelong protection against it.
Then please explain Post Polio Syndrome? Polio is a virus that survives in the intestines just like influenza, and was/is often misdiagnosed as the flu.
Do you even have a point?
Vaccines and medication have given post-polio sufferers decades of extra life.
It’s interesting you bring up “deciding for your own children” because there are quite a few children who grew up without being vaccinated because their parents never allowed them to get vaccines, and then once they are old enough they go and get them. Natural herd immunity did not exist back in the day when there wasn’t a measles vaccine; some people had natural immunity, but that is the case today, and that is not “herd” immunity. Access to clean water and healthy food definitely should be emphasized as that does reduce the risks and complications of diseases, but those measures will not prevent all diseases. Nothing is free in capitalist society, so of course vaccinations cost money, but many vaccinations are very low-cost because they are paid for via taxes and the government. Also, pharmaceutical companies make more profits from antibiotics and other medicines, as well as things like chemo treatments; profit is an incentive, but they will receive no profit if their vaccines do not meet a certain safety standard. And yes, no medical procedure is without risks, but being vulnerable to disease also carries risks, and any other activity you could possibly do carries risk. Also, vaccines count more as preventative medicine, which physicals, pap smears, and mental check-in assessments fall under as well.
There will never be a “national debate” about immunisation. Or whether we should wear seat belts in cars, or have fences around swimming pools. The antivaxxers say ” I’m not anti vaccine ” so as to be taken seriously but then can’t help themselves and spout the usual crap from the gang of twelve: Wakefield, Tenpenny, Robert Kennedy Jr, Suzanne Humphries , the lovely Tetyana,etc. In Australia,until conscientious objection (aka belief system) was removed as an excuse for parents to deny immunisation to their children, the rate for same was 1.8 percent of families. It has since fallen and immunisation rates are rising. There will always be a fringe group who have a fixed belief system and resources are thankfully now being directed to the 5 percent of families whose kids are unimmunised due to ignorance or apathy or lack of access. Meanwhile more and more states in Australia and Around the world are mandating immunisation for attendance at child care so really the ant-vax crowd are losing the fight.
Dude : parents who don’t use vaccines are the majority Ex VAXXERS not Anti. Athey did as they were told and their baby died or got brain damaged. Please watch vaxxed. Read up on the subject.
how’s that cool-aide, Lynn?
Which gang are you in Chris? How about you bring yourself up to date with the American CDC booster schedule before you go off harping about the ‘unvaccinated”. I bet you $10,000 that you are actually not weight equivalent vaccinated. If you and the ‘health practitioner’ nominated are willing to subject yourselves to the same vaccines that are being mandated for children then I will happily pay up.
Just google anything, you’ll find countless resources of doctors using the same vaccines on themselves and their children.
What do you think is the great conspiracy here? Free flu and measles shots are actually a giant conspiracy to keep the world autistic?
Ali, do you realize that most people are vaccinated with the vaccines being mandated for children, and they are perfectly fine? I’m almost certain that you yourself were vaccinated with these same vaccines… If not, it’s not too late to get them if you decide. Please review more reputable studies and truly think on the information and conclusions being presented, talk with your friends and family, hear other viewpoints.
keep believing that and you can keep sleeping at night…. sadly parents with vaccine inured children are not afforded that luxury. 24/7 care… unassisted and abused by people who write as you have done. Try finding your moral compass next time your are at your computer, instead of denigrating and attempting to marginalise those who do actually read the clinical trials, have a vaccine inured family member, or has lost someone and been told it was just a coincidence.
How many parents (per million) have a child who is vaccine injured and how many parents (per million) lost their child to an infectious disease before vaccines were introduced?
Do you know?
Do you have slightest idea?
Papyr: The chances of a child (more specifically infant) dying from measles is around 1 in 500. The chances of a vaccines complication (founded and confirmed by scientific research, not some random person saying they felt weird or making a claim off of coincidence) is around 1 in one 1,000,000. But of course, anybody who says this is just paid by “big pharma” and you refuse their scientifically and medically studied and confirmed information. Ask your grandparents why they never see little kids with hearing aids anymore. Because the vaccines that prevent these diseases kept kids from losing their hearing from it. Why don’t kids know what polio is today? You don’t even have to rely on the science. Just look at the number of cases per year since the vaccine was introduced. That’s not coincidence. If you won’t believe real science then believe math.
I am with the Italian approach – vaccinate! When seat belts were made mandatory, after studies demonstrated that they were safe and effective, people stopped questioning and put on seat belts. They still do.
Putting on a seat belts is not a medical procedure. Medical procedures require informed consent in this country. Anything that breaks through my skin without my permission is assault and battery.
I agree… it is battery. Uninformed consent is unlawful.. period. ‘Tailor the message,’ a desperate strategy made up by desperate people, who realise that the global consumer is waking up, literate and discerning. No longer content to be a lab rat for the vaccine industry. It might work for the oganisations that experiment in Third World countries, but it won’t work in developed countries.. although to be frank, it is happening, just with peoples’ consent.
Anything that breaks through your skin? You mean like infectious diseases?
Medical procedures to require informed consent. And medical professionals do inform you; it is not always their fault that you do not understand, and they are never at fault if you are just plain ignorant and fearful of the information being presented to you and you do not make an effort to understand.
Also, if you consent to things breaking through your skin, it is not assault and battery. Also, I’m sure a small needle hole would not count for assault and battery in court, but just a minor injury.
Also, informed consent requires that the individual consenting has the proper mental capacity. Seeing as how you’re taking on this stance, well… maybe you don’t have the proper mental capacity to properly consent.
How many babies and toddlers have died from putting on a seat belt? How many got autoimmune diseases, seizures, brain damage, the disease itself, life threatening allergies, ADD and other learning disabilities, etc? Read the inserts that come with the vials not a printout with the sales slogan “safe & effective”. Read VAERS, read The US Vaccine Injury Court reports. Listen to a few of the thousands of parents, some Drs and scientists, tell their life changing reactions their children had to vaccines. Educate yourself, your child’s life may depend on it. You can’t tell an older person who lived without vaccines that without 69 doses of neurotoxins (aluminium and mercury), fetal cells, bovine serum, sorbate80, etc that they will die if they don’t get injected because they know better. Mumps, measles were considered harmless childhood diseases and we know it by experience. In the 80s children received 10 vaccines, they have long since worn off if they even took. Measles if antibodies were created at a cost to health lasts 10-12 years according to the CDC. That leaves millions that haven’t been in this theoretical herd pack for decades. Where are the deadly epidemics? A few cases of measles, many fully vaccinated, is not worth mentioning. What happened to H1N1? The UK paid out 90 million to children injured by that vaccine. What happened to the Zika virus? It’s fear mongering. It’s all orchestrated by the pharmaceutical industry for sales and to boost their billion $ profits. The children have never been sicker. The US vaccinates more than any other developed country and has the highest infant mortality rates, Canada very close to the same numbers.
agreed… it is a case of the Emperor’s clothes is it not?
Everything you said here is false. Mumps and Measles were some of the top causes of death for children just 100 years ago… Ask literally any older person about polio, whooping cough, measles, etc…They all used to be real life threatening problems for children across the world, and still are where vaccines are not available.
You forgot smallpox. If these people had had any say it would still be killing 5,000,000 a year.
1) think about it another way: how many babies and toddlers have had these things that haven’t had a seat belt on, etc?
2) VAERS is untrustworthy, Fallacy Man at the Logic of Science will tell you that.
3) dose makes the poison. Also, many of these things aren’t even in vaccines
4) We have less vaccines for each disease. Therefore they are not out there for money
5) Measles were never nothing to worry about.
Good lord the ignorance from you folks never stops. Measles still kills as many as 140,000 a year worldwide because of lack of adequate vaccination, which you people are contributing to. Almost all those deaths are 100% preventable.
“never been sicker”? did you forget about the black plague? oh! y’know, something that died out BECAUSE OF VACCINES?
vaccines didn’t exist back then,so the disease actually killed around a third of Europe. So if we ever get to time travel,someone’s gotta bring some vaccines for the plague to stop some of that madness.
Soap stopped it, hygiene
That’s part of it. The plague virus also evolved to be less deadly over time. Killing its host too quickly is not a good way for it to survive and thrive.
Bubonic plague is not caused by a virus, it’s caused by a bacteria, which responds to antibiotics. Absent treatment with those it’s still plenty deadly.
Bubonic plague was not stopped by vaccination, there is no vaccine. None is really needed. It was stopped by sanitation and is now treated with anitbiotics. Smallpox however was eradicated by vaccination and at about 5,000,000 deaths a year on average worldwide the 100 years it was in the wild it killed more than Bubonic plague did. Don’t worry I’m sure antivaxers will start protesting over being “lab rats” for the pharmaceutical industry to use antibiotics on too. They are determined to take us back to the freaking 14th century.
Correction: Smallpox however was eradicated by vaccination and at about 5,000,000 deaths a year on average worldwide the LAST 100 years it was in the wild
Show me instances where people were injured and even killed because they used their seat belt and I’ll show you thousands upon thousands of children who have been injured and even killed because of vaccines.
Show me the thousands and thousands then. From a returnable source please, not some random website.
Go to VAERS John
Go to VAERS yourself. You can report that you got rabies from the flu vaccine. It’s a database of complaints, not verifiable information.
VAERS is as far from a reliable source as anything. Anyone can report any fairy tail.
Maybe you’ll believe these scientists and people with several masters degrees and the whistle blowers at the disease for control centre
That’s just a bunch of correlation = causation logical fallacy. There is a strong correlation between frequent use of cigarette lighters and lung cancer, but I’m pretty sure it’s the cigarettes causing the lung cancer, not the lighters.
No you won’t, you’ll show us a bunch of alleged instances with no scientific evidence based on nothing more than alleged correlation which does NOT prove causation, and even if you had thousands of cases how does that stack up against the 5,000,000 people who no longer die every year of smallpox alone due to…wait for it….VACCINCATION.
And I’ll show you the billions upon billions of children who have been killed because vaccines were not available.
Then why, when it comes to vaccines, have people NOT stopped questioning and moreover, are increasingly CHALLENGING vaccine mandates? It’s NOT due to the Wakefields and Kennedys. Its the Information Superhighway. Here, people can research the science, the statistics, the testimonials of vaccine victims and more, or just rely on their own personal vaccine injury experiences – and of course, there’s word of mouth. The Italian approach, eh? Io non parlo Italiano!!!
Yes. It’s the Internet. Where anyone can write and propagate anything, any b.s., any idiocy, any lie. And where like-minded people can congregate.
There is everything on the Internet. There are precise pieces of scientific information. There are contradictory statements. There are outright lies. The problem is, a non-professional cannot easily tell what is true and what is a lie. It would be logical to trust those who are schooled on the subject. Before, we had to go to the library to find something out. But now we tend to read the random three results from the first Google (or worse yet, YouTube) results page and that’s it, we’ve “done our research”. We tend to believe those that are loud, we tend to believe those who scare us and we really love to think that if we don’t believe the “official” standpoint then we are smarter than others, we are not “sheeple”. Any professional who tries to tell us the truth is readily dismissed as the one who is financially involved and thus is lying. (Especially in the field of cancer treatment and vaccines… while we, the ones who are “not sheeple”, never think why is it that these medical professional are vaccinated themselves, are having their kids vaccinated, and take chemo themselves when they get cancer. Probably they are more loyal to the Big Pharma than to their own bodies and lives?)
Internet brought us a world when everyone can think he’s a specialist on any subject. That’s what the information superhighway brought us. Not more actual specialists, mind you.
Papyr just nailed it.
Outright lies?!!! Well… I never! Harumph!
They mostly research non-experts, e.g. not specialists in vaccines, these people also gorge on fake news.
A seemingly large but yet still tiny percentage of the population buying into scientifically invalid anti-vaxer conspiracy theories is not evidence supporting the conspiracy theories. That’s not how hypothesis are proven. Your “argument” is just Ad populum logical fallacy, i.e. people believe something so it must be true.
I don’t think we should use the terms “anti-vaxxer” or “vaccine hesitant”, because they’re not respectful.
Fair enough. What terms would you prefer?
Anti backers should be prosecuted for endangering the welfare not only of their children, but that of other children as well.
Wow tell that to all the mothers and fathers who literally have lost their children do to vaccinations but those children are still alive
So the American tax payers are pay 45 billion dollars a year out to victims who have been injured by vaccines. Vaccines are safe right? Now you are trying to psychologically work on individuals with babble to see if they are easily influenced.It is the right of every individual to decided for them selves. You have no right to push vaccinations onto anyone else. You take them if you want, no one is vilifying you for doing so, so stop vilifying those that do not wish to be vaccinated.
Anti vaxxers have no right to risk the lives of others by spreading disease. You should all be sent to an island somewhere and see how long it takes you to beg for modern medicine.
Oh good lord what do you want to call them then? These people are literally trying to bring back polio, measles, mumps, rubella, etc. If it had been up to them the world would still be suffering 5,000,000 smallpox deaths a year. Variolation appears in eastern medical literature as early as the 15th century and was likely practiced well before that. The medical researchers of the day having learned how to neutralize a pathogen nobody had even actually seen. By the mid to late 18th century it had become common in the west and modern vaccinology had begun. Fast forward to the late 19th century and the previously thought impossible had occurred: Pasteur had developed a proven working rabies vaccine. Fast forward to today and anti-vaxers want to wipe out 600 years of medical advancement. 15th century Chinese were literally more medically and scientifically advanced than the anti-vaxers (an accurate description of what they are) of today.
Who or what is not respectful?
Blah blah blah. How about finally telling the truth about medieval chemical injections OR have a live televised debate on the topic from both sides. If protecting the vaccinated from the unvaccinated is sooooo important you will not have a problem with the latter.
Until then, you vaxtremists have 0 credibility.
It’s actually more about protecting children who cannot be or haven’t yet been vaccinated. Some vaccines, like the MMR, use attenuated virus (think of a dog vs. a wolf) but children with immune deficiencies can’t take those and rely on herd immunity.
So these children need to stay away from anyone recently vaccinated with a live virus vaccine due to viral shedding. Notice that cancer wards have signs at the entrance forbidding anyone who has been recently vaccinated with a live virus vaccine from entering. What does this tell you? Vaccines spread diseases.
Your nuts! If parents want to send their kids to school were I live they must be vaccinated!
You are nuts sir! Drink more fluoride while you’re at it. Fool!
Happy death day! if you think that vaccines will ever be mandatory
Bob, I’m allergic to vaccines. That is very hurtful, and I CANNOT get vaccines. I am a young teenager myself, and I got some of my allergies from vaccines, which made me allergic to them. Also, it’s you’re. Not your.
Suggest you look into germ theory Vs terrain theory. Viruses are not contagious. It’s a myth. http://www.theinfectiousmyth.com
So, you’re saying HIV, fi, is not spread by sex? Or Ebola is not contagious.? Or that Crowe is similar to a flat-earthier?
I would recommend seeing some type of psychiatric doctor, I think you are ill.
Wow.. you’re an idiot.. let’s all google something and just assume it’s true…
you know what vaccines kill people
Vaccines actually save lives, that’s what they were created for. Why would the government want to kill so many people?
We must first conduct randomized control studies to show that your statement is correct.
For many not spoken about reasons
One word for you sir “free will”
Vaccines don’t spread diseases, they prevent them. Think about it. Why would the government (who created the vaccine) want people to die? The public would become outraged and stage protests, which the government definitely does not want. So let me ask you again: why would the government want people to die?
For many reasons
That is most unconvincing, sir
Good observation ! One of the reasons for this is because cancer patients taking chemotherapy will have their immune system compromised making them more susceptible to get said live infection and die due to immune system suppression as side effect of chemotherapy, radiation and medications . They are in reverse isolation state where they can get sick from visitors etc .
“So these children need to stay away from anyone recently vaccinated with a live virus vaccine due to viral shedding.”
[sigh] No because modified “live” virus vaccines are modified in such a manner that they no longer cause disease, only an immune response.
Most vaccines do not use a live virus. Some do. Vaccines sometimes spread diseases, but the spread of disease happens faster when people are not vaccinated.
As someone who is immunocompromised, I wouldn’t wish it upon anyone else. Vaccines have been shown to suppress and debilitate to the immune system. Please don’t use people like me as an excuse for medical tyranny under the false pretence of herd immunity which has been disproven. I do not feel safer. If anything, people like me are at risk of getting sick from those who are shedding viruses from vaccines. Second, mandatory vaccination will actually make it next to impossible for me to get the exemption I require as someone with an immune deficiency.
Of course vaccines are going to shake up the immune system. They’re forcibly exiling an entire family of disease. Saving lives is a big deal, it’s not going to feel like a placebo shot of sugar.
Funny thing is some companies drug companies don’t use sugar as placebos… Guess what they use? Other immunizations!
The truth about vaccines
After scientists did mass load analysis Before 1989 the average person had 70 mcg of murcury in their bodies after that they upped the immunization schedule and now ppl have over 230 mcg of murcury in their bodies .. Mercury is a carcinogen they also add something to make sure that it gets through the blood brain barrier… And that folks is why we have so much ADD ADHD turrets Food allergies asthma autism before 1989 only one in 100 kids got those diseases now it’s 1 in 25… oh and now they want to give babies born day won the human papilloma virus immunization … which only carries antibodies for 3 to 5 years…
There has been no mercury in childhood vaccines since 2001 and yet, autism rates are climbing. Increasing murcury levels can be attributed to exposure to a number of things in our food, water and environment. Just think about how much sushi has gained in popularity over the last decade.
Wow you need to research immunology.
For sure. Vaccines are not safe or effective. Proven.
Ok idiot why do you think that way. Do you just want to be a jerk. Or did a 25x debunked project make you think that vaccines cause autism
Oh yeah sure, smallpox just died out by total coincidence. It went from killing 5,000,000 a year worldwide and blinding and disfiguring millions more to extinct all by itself in less than 50 years. Anti-vaxers are just ridiculous and logic proof.
You have evidence of that? What if vaccines where never meant to work in the first place? What if the name of the game is population control?
Just google “Bill gates population control “ he flat out tells you that’s what vaccines are for !
What Bill Gates meant by his comment was that if childhood mortality rates can be reduced in third-world countries, parents wouldn’t have to have 10 kids to make sure at least three survive (to take care of them when they get older).
You have a wicked strong tinfoil hat
LOL If the name of the game were “population control” we wouldn’t have bothered with vaccines and would have let smallpox just keep killing 5,000,000 people a year, every year, year in, and year out. Instead we used vaccines and a mass worldwide vaccination effort to eradicate it from the planet. Total worldwide deaths from smallpox today? Zero. Total worldwide cases today? Zero. Why? One word: VACCINATION.
You are uninformed check the cdc website for list of ingredients – it is right out in the open because they know the general public are sheeps ready for slaughter. You think they care about your children’s health ? Anybody will naturally create antibodies from being around measles the. But big pharm brainwashed you to think they know better since they can manipulate the USA press.
Research vaccine testing in Africa or India to see the huge amount of children harmed by modern day vaccine testing. You have been lied to and immune compromised since 1980s.
where does herd immunity being disproven facts come about?…
Chris thats a great question. I admire that you seek real information. Herd immunuty is a common dogma but if a bit of critical thinking is applied its easy to see the truth amongst the dogma. The party line is that a huge drop in disease was noticed after the majority of people got vaccinated. First we must understand that this happened right around the same time as people learned the benifits of things like washing their hands. Cross contamination was also bekng learned, so to assume that the vaccinations were responsible for the drop ignores many other factors and skews the data. Herd immunity data is only valid at 90 percent or more of the population vaccinated which, as far as I know the numbers don’t show as being a reality. So the herd immunity theory already seems more like a fancy story based on belief and dogma rather than honest data in the majority of locations.(i note they did reach 90% or more in some places in canada) So if we wanted to prove herd immunity we would first have to look at communities that had a 90%+ rate of compliance. Then we would have to isolate the data from other possible factors such as the health habits and knowledge of the community. For this a control group (which their seems to be an absense of in this hoaky science) would be needed. Then you would also have to factor in enviromental factors. A disease more common in the tropics for example may not be much of an issue in Alaska or Canada. So if you take your northern data and say this proves it! Without also looking at the sothern data you end up with poor science if you could even call it science. By now you can probably see the extreme lack of critical thinking involved by those who push this theory. The majority once thought the earth was flat also but critical thinking and real science disproved this. However the minority who were the first to say the earth wasn’t flat endured a lot of persecution for differing from the party line. I belive they even killed some of them if I remember right. The last time I asked for very particular real world data in the hospital over this topic i was met with the deer in the headlightd look. Then they just went back to the safety of the party line rather than presenting the requested data or telling me where to find it. When I see doctors ignore request for real data a red flag goes up in my mind. But hey, it probably sounded good in the same classrooms all the doctors went to. Id call it herd propaganda. Sorry for any typos and poor wording, its 3am after a super busy week and im typing on a cell phone
You’re the real information? Where’s your source? Cue deer in head lights look lol.
Interesting theory, however all points have been widely covered.
One concern with seeking out information on vaccines is you only find the information that supports your own beliefs. It becomes increasingly difficult to think critically if you’re searching for “vaccines are toxic myths” instead of “how do vaccines work?”
Ask yourself the point in injection millions of babies worldwide with dangerous vaccines if they were unnecessary?
Orthodox Jewish communities are widely known to prefer not vaccinating. One particular neighbourhood has a herd immunity of 70% and has had 214 reported cases of child measles since January 2019. We are talking about a small community here.
It is such a painful and debilitating disease to contract.
Herd immunity is nearly a sample size percentage of a specific area. It’s impossible to say how much of the entire world is vaccinated at this second so we must look within our own communities to assess data sets.
If you find yourself believing in something’s so strongly no amount of evidence could waver you, than it’s perhaps a fruitless effort to comment on a forum. Beliefs that cannot be shaken by evidence is an utterly futile discussion.
Health and happiness
I think a better search query would be:
‘The pros and cons of vaccination’. ‘How vaccines work’ has an only-positive spin on it, and as you commented on the ‘vaccines are toxic myths’ search not allowing critical thinking, your suggestion solely supports the other end of the ‘enlightenment’ spectrum regarding vaccines.
So you say your patents/grandparents did not know how to wash their hands? Because they were the generations affected by polio and many saved by a vaccine.
This cannot be attributed to hygiene.
And if you believe they don’t work, how do you explain immunity against viruses etc (I’m assuming you know the difference and mechanisms behind immunity and resistance otherwise educate yourself).
How is it that those who had cowpox did not get smallpox?
“The party line is that a huge drop in disease was noticed after the majority of people got vaccinated. ”
Uh yeah a huge drop in disease is routinely noted to accompany large scale vaccination efforts. For example smallpox went from infecting 15 – 20 million a year and killing about 5 million a year to infecting and killing zero people in less than 50 years and is now eradicated except for highly secured samples in two known level IV bio labs. No smallpox in the wild anymore. It no longer exists. Eradicated. Wiped out. Gone. Extinct. That alone should completely debunk anti-vaxer nonsense.
Herd immunity is a term used for cattle. Are you a cow? The elite view you as cattle. These are the same people who stole your money via the Federal Reserve. Propaganda is used to turn fiction into truth and truth into fiction. Population control is their game. They don’t care about your health as long as they make more money and gain more power.
Has our society become so far removed from polio and smallpox that we’ve forgotten?
History, if not learned from, is destined to repeat itself
Seriously look at the simple minded, rigid, extremely unsophisticated and completely illogical nature of the comment you responded to. Any questions about the critical thinking ability or sophistication level of the people you are dealing with should be removed. The poster’s obvious conclusion: Herd immunity is bad simply because the word “herd” can be used in conjunction with cattle. Sorry but they really are just dumb. IQ matters. Sorry sensitive people out there, but it does, and there is ultimately no substitute for it. Ignorance can be fixed but lack of intelligence and reasoning ability cannot.
Anyone out there who is brave enough to put their own views to the side for a moment and type ‘Big Pharma’ into the search bar will get enough info to research and consider whether all they do is more for our benefit or their profit.
I think we have become far too trusting of those that are in control of our fate, and for some reason would rather blindly follow that to even consider other scenarios or agendas.
https://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/herd-immunity . If population control was thier game we would have a declining population , but we’re not we’re having a rising population
What’s wrong with cows? Are we better than the animal kingdom now? Last I checked I was a mammal… not that genetically different from a cow actually. Or a pig. Or a chimp. So now who’s being elitist?
There is no viral shedding because the virus that you get vaccinated with is dead and it is not supposed to multiply.
Dan, not dead, but weak. if they were fully dead, they wouldn’t have the correct effect on the immune system.
Nowadays most are only fragments (this is the reason why you need more than one). They are safer because they are dead but not as many memory cells will be created so multiple shots are needed
Nope. That is not correct. Some are antigenic proteins in surface. Not whole organism.
Modified “live” virus vaccines are not simply weakened they are modified to no longer be able to cause the disease they are used to vaccinate against. We are not talking about 15th century variolation.
How do you know? Are you using a talking point given to you? Turn your TV off and drop all mainstream media. Six corporations control all media and they are all on the same team. If you tell a lie long enough, then eventually it becomes the truth.
Which ones? They cannot control news outlets worldwide
Ok boomer why are you a ass do you think that because you have read a fake article once you know more than a medical professional who has been practicing medicine for years. Vaccines are good and don’t cause anything bad
I suppose you are also one of those people that still believe that blood letting is still a viable option…
(Bloodletting (or blood-letting) is the withdrawal of blood from a patient to prevent or cure illness and disease.
Not only is there the risk of losing too much blood, causing a dangerous drop in blood pressure and even cardiac arrest, but people who are already sick take their chances with infection or anemia. Not to mention that in most cases, bloodletting doesn’t cure what ails you.)
You can’t reasonably make blanket statements like that. Some vaccines do can have side effects but the side effects typically pale in comparison to the effects of the disease.
Vaccines do shed for up to several weeks, specifically the flu vaccine. Go to CDC website and look it up if you don’t believe me. That is why nurses in hospitals who just got vaccinated have to take extra precaution when going around people with cancer – because vaccines shed.
Yes they potentially shed, genetically modified viral particles that do not cause the disease in question. There is no quarantine requirement for people who receive a vaccination today as there was for people immunized by non genetically modified active virus in the past e.g. smallpox variolation. Modified “live” virus vaccines are modified so they no longer cause the disease. Viral particles that are shed are as the modified virus that they were replicated from.
A virus is not alive, whether it’s ‘alive’ or ‘dead’. Sorry just being a pedant.
Yikes bobby, it was theorised that live-vaccines could possibly be susceptible to viral shedding (so that’s a valid concern) but was proven in 2011 to be impossible. The virus may shed but it will still be the attenuated state, so minute infection would be impossible to transfer.
Your health is very important to members of your local community. Wishing you health and happiness and to spread the good word to protect ALL immune-deficient individuals. The latest measles spike has us all worried.
Thank you for this perspective Bobby. I have been trying to wrap my mind around this train of thought: it is your civil duty to vaccinate and assume the risks to your own body to prevent risk of harm for others. Sort of doesn’t make sense to me to be honest. Can you provide a link that disproves herd immunity? I am curious to understand that more. Everyone on both sides says the science is settled…which is suspect to me because the very nature of science means it’s never settled. How are we supposed to find people we trust when we are not trained to sort through medical data.
If you are immune suppressed in most cases you are the first one who should be getting vaccinated since the actual illness is far more likely to be more severe or kill you if you contract it. All I can say is I hope the anti-vaxer attitude of people like you doesn’t extend to not rabies vaccinating your pets or the US and Canada are going to become like some third world country with thousands of people dying from rabies too.
Get your facts straight! viral shedding has ONLY be shown to exist in ORAL POLIO vaccines, which are absolutely not used in most developed countries… any more!
This is still a concern but not in the way you seem to think.
Since this vaccine is a “live” attenuated virus, there is a chance that it may mutate WITHIN the body of the person receiving it. That vaccinated person, however, will not develop polio from that.
However, anyone in their community who HAS NOT been vaccinated has a very small chance of contracting polio from the mutated virus, the “shed” virus.
So even more reason to get out and vaccinate the ENTIRE community so that it is well within range of what herd immunity for that particular disease will be.
That would PROTECT you and people like you because the chances of you contacting someone who may be shedding a mutated virus is SO LOW as to be negligible. You have FAR MORE chance of suffering from what your immune system already can not do for you than you would from this type of virus spreading.
HERD IMMUNITY WORKS! I don’t know why you say that it has been disproven. Where are links to actual and real epidemiological studies that show that? And please don’t link to any anti-vax propaganda. Link ONLY to published Scientific Journals! Thank you
Mandatory vaccination policies will allow exemptions. After all, some people are allergic to components in some vaccines, so they very well couldn’t get certain vaccines without having an allergic reaction. Despite that, herd immunity does exist and has been proven, though it works better when more people are vaccinated. Low amounts of people having vaccines lowers herd immunity. Also, vaccines only temporarily suppress the immune system, but the individual who has received the vaccine does build immunity.
herd immunity is another construct….. do your own research ….
But if the shots improve the immune system, why can’t you give it to the immune compromised?
Because you need an immune system to learn about what the vaccine will teach to the body, if you don’t have it, the body will just have intruders injected without immune system to stop the verry weak version of the sickness that the vaccin submitted to your immune system to help it find out how to kill it.
The entire purpose of a vaccine is to prepare the immune system for what it would encounter should you ever come into contact with the actual disease.
Lymphocytes float around in your blood and some of those are specifically designed as “memory” cells. They find and recognize intruders and initiate an immune response. This is why is can be necessary to have your vaccine titres checked to ensure you have high enough levels of these memory lymphocytes. They do replicate but some get damaged or autolyse, so over time the number you have which respond to a specific pathogen decreases (let’s say measles). If a vaccinated person comes into contact with measles and they have enough memory cells then the measles virus will be recognized quickly and killed off before it has a chance to cause harm. Without these memory cells measles would not be recognized until it began to cause harm. Surely you can see why this is beneficial.
Given all of this information…. someone who has a compromised immune system does not have enough lymphocytes to form an adequate number of memory cells, and of course the body also has to react to and “kill” the measles that is in the vaccine (how it will know it’s bad in the future). So once again without an adequate number of immune cells this can’t happen.
…. and she hits a grand slam!! ;)
In most cases you do. For example, high risk populations like the elderly, with weaker immune systems are the ones most strongly urged to get a flu vaccine since the flu is much more likely to kill them if they get it than a younger person with a stronger immune system. Anti-vaxers love to generalize precautions applicable to a small number of vaccines to all vaccines because it helps them fear monger. Not every vaccine is the same and just because somebody can find one with cautions against use in patients with weak immune systems does not mean that precaution applies to every vaccine on the face of the earth.
This idea of protecting the immunocompromised is a MYTH. There is not ONE documented report of an unvaccinated person/child infecting and killing an immunocompromised child. Please post it if you find it. This is a myth created by big pharma to silence the assertion of parents who say whats the problems if yor child is vaccinated. Are they not protected? What difference does it make if my child is unvaccinated. If vaccines work there shouldn’t be a problem. But you see that argument didn’t sit well with big pharma so they came up with the immunocompromised child.
Yet nobody talks about the actual DEATHS and PERMANENT INJURY AND DISABILITY that occurs EVERY SINGLE DAY with vaccines.
The only way a immunocompromised guy can catch a sikeness is by someone that catch the sickness to give them… Vaccin prevent you from catching so you cannot give it to anyone, including immunocompromised, so this simple fact is the proof… immunocompromised cannot catch a sickness if nobody give them… that’s how viruses and bacterias work, you need someone to give it to you, they don’t come from nothingness.
This would be useless to do documented report to tell colorblind that the sky is blue.
How do you think most disease spreads, Andrew?
The actual deaths and permanent injury and disability that occurs every single day with vaccines is a lie, an urban myth, a falsehood. The perpetuation of a fantasy ideology that really doesn’t exist. The proof is in the number of people who DO get vaccinations that are effective. If you don’t believe this, let’s just hear from all of the anti-vaxers who ARE vaccinated and didn’t prevent their children from being vaccinated… The only reason for the anti-vax movement keeps making noise is because of false proponents and the gallability of poorly educated and stupid people, which includes those particularly in the mass media.
… so your saying that data on vaccinations side effects is all a myth? That all of them are ok and that only the silly stupid folks believe that adverse reactions both possible and occure? … wow.
You apparently haven’t done your research or even taken the time to read a vaccine package insert that list the side effects you are claiming to be a myth. You may also want to look into the Over 3 Billion that has had to be paid to people that were able to prove they suffered from a vaccine injury that over 3 billion the vaccine injury compensation fund figure would be WAY HIGHER if there was no cap on how much one could be compensated. The Supreme Court had to set this up bc vaccine makers threatened to stop making any vaccines bc they were being sued so much due to their so called “safe” vaccines causing so many injuries. Vaccine makers have 0% incentives to make safer vaccines bc they are not held liable. Most people are not anti-vaccine they are PRO-safety for vaccines. Many people are unaware that the vaccines given are not put through more than a few days of safety testing, and NONE are double blind placebo tested. The hep b vaccine given to day old babies went through a whole 4 days of testing from one manufacturer and only 5 days for the other makers and NO PLACEBO testing. All other vaccines went through similar inadequate testing. Yet this doesn’t enrage public at large???None of the vaccines were tested in conjunction with other vaccines yet children are receiving 5-9 doses in a single visit!!!! You wouldn’t give your child medication that wasn’t safety tested yet many aren’t demanding testing and liablility to the manufacturers! I ask you to take the time to watch The Truth about Vaccines (Robert F. Kennedy JR) until people can have an educated discuss about this topic our children will remain at risk.
Wow what a bunch of
People need to do their own research . Vaccine insert 13 is proof that vaccines are dangerous and are pure poison. The fact that manufactures are know trying to hide their own vaccine insert section 13 is scary! The fact that the vaccine manufactures are protected from lawsuits is scary!
People please watch Thefullertoninformer youtube videos.
He has great videos. Adult mandates are coming soon.
Research event201. The Bill Gates foundation was giving out corona virus souvenirs on October 2019. Bill Gates has been recorded LIVE talking about how with vacciness and reproductive heqlth system they can reach their depopulation goal. He donated millions for the new vaccine. The real ID is to keep track of our vaccines.
Watch thefullertoninformer videos!!!
First of all, corona virus ( Covid-19) started in December 2019 . Second of all, im vaccinate and im perfectly fine . Also you misspelled health , and one you tuber doesn’t mean that something is correct anyone can make an account on YouTube and say the earth is a pyramid , would they be correct , No! . Also how are we to know if bill gates even went live talking about ” vacciness and reproductive heqlth system they can reach their depopulation goal. ” if you could provide a link to this live appearance that would help not sound like like your making this up ( which you probably are . )
And you wouldn’t let your child die from a preventable disease would you . Even if there was a risk which there isn’t why would let people die because you promoted fancy science . Also ” vaccine injury ” doesn’t exist i’ve gotten vaccinated plenty of times and i haven’t gotten injured except for the small hole from where the vaccine enters . And if vaccine injuries happened to 3/7th of the population you’d think i or anyone i know would of been ” vaccine injured ” but they haven’t .
exactly! well, unless someone is allergic to something in the vaccine.
Will everyone just quit talking about ‘Big Pharma’ for once and stick to something that is not going to make everyone hate researchers and doctors?
Immunocompromised children DO exist, so don’t go around saying the ones who say they are are nothing but liars. There are different conditions, such as many types of cancer that make one have a compromised immune system. If they get just a little bit of the disease then they can DIE.
Also, vaccine injuries are extremely rare, and I’ve seen only selfish people bringing that up. “Oh, so-and-so had one out of the MILLIONS who were vaccinated, so I’m not going to risk it.”
If you don’t vaccinate your child these days, it is inevitable that your child will get the disease, and possibly DIE from it.
If you do not agree with me, just see my FAVORITE vaxtremist Fallacy Man on the Logic of Science. He will correct your ways.
*If you guys feel that I was rude or anything, please do not be afraid to yell at me on this.
I work in a hospital lab and I am familiar with procedure in the children’s hospital. We have an entire wing dedicated to the care of sick children. Many are immunocompromised due to chemotherapy treatment for bone cancer, leukemia, and so on. Some outside of the hospital in everyday life have a compromised immune system due to various genetic disorders, but they are well enough to live a relatively normal existence. In many inpatient rooms caregivers and family cannot enter the room without observing contact precautions, which means they must don a gown, gloves, and so on. If these children were somehow exposed to the flu by a visitor if could potentially be fatal. In the realm of Big Pharma, vaccines are not even remotely profitable. There isn’t much motivation to push them unnecessarily onto patients. This being said.. please consider that immunocompromised children is a real thing. And if there’s something big pharma would profit from it would be expensive treatments like chemo, narcotics, and drugs which have unexpired patents that cost hundreds upon hundreds of dollars or those that have an indefinite duration of treatment- like drugs to treat illnesses that are not self-limiting. And remember of all the expensive treatments you could be getting.. chemo may eventually kill you before it kills cancer cells.
Wow if you think pharma is not profiting from the CDC scheduled vaccines your living under a rock. Manufacturers have a product they can profit on with zero liability! They can not be sued due to the 1986 Supreme Court ruling which ruled because vaccines have known serious adverse risk manufacturers can not be held liable. We wouldn’t have as many immune compromised children if it wasn’t for vaccines. More than half 54% of children now have a chronic illness which coincides with the added vaccine scheduled doses that is now up to an ALARMING 72 doses and they just keep adding for profit. There is no adequate safety testing done and zero placebo testing done on ANY vaccines. As a medical researcher the public needs to have informed consent on the risks and benefits of a vaccine. It can not go one way.
That’s corruption in your government and country..please stop blaming medical science. It exists to save lives. Nothing is 100% safe on earth. But not vaccinating is 100% risky. I would like data available worldwide to identify possible spikes of infection rates and those who aren’t vaccinated in the nearby area. We must live as a community and not just consider ourselves….it’s not how society works. Conspiracy theories are very addictive.
Love from one of the many many many countries outside the US who supply free vaccines and medical care, while corrupt governments like yours let citizens die in the thousands each year due to being too poor to live
Cynthia, Pharma makes a KILLING of of vaccines!! Like literally billions of dollars, so I don’t know what your saying that “vaccines are not even remotely profitable” Also when their vaccines injure people not only are they not held liable but they make money off of people paying for things like chemotherapy. Even everyday pediatric doctors often get paid for having full vaccines compliance with their patients, meaning the more of kids they vaxx, the more money they are given. Point being, Big Pharma definitely makes a TON of money off of both vaccines and the injuries they produce
And big medical companies getting money is bad? That means that let’s not get medicine for cancer because it’s from a corporation
Since when has vaccines caused injuries?
And here’s the really really sad one..this mother posted the photos on facebook and people trashed her because they didn’t read the entire article..if they had, they would have seen that she was not anti-vaxx, her child was actually unable to receive vaccines. This young girl is the reason medical exemptions exist. https://www.kidspot.com.au/parenting/real-life/in-the-news/mum-shares-heartbreaking-photos-of-her-twoyearold-who-died-from-measles/news-story/47ea6cb0c91cf9409e1d78bebce0707c
Totally agree. And if they injure children then they just make more money off of anti-seizure drugs, ADHD medication, anti-depressants, etc.
Oh the fake medical got to you too. And yeah those aren’t deaths from vaccines there from no vaccines
Dude, zip the flapper and get real facts.
Please give these deaths that happen ” EVERY SING DAY ” please give them i’m wait
“Yet nobody talks about the actual DEATHS and PERMANENT INJURY AND DISABILITY that occurs EVERY SINGLE DAY with vaccines.”
Because it’s 99% correlation = causation logical fallacy and because the other 1% causes far less harm on net than the illness being vaccinated against. If a vaccine 100% effective against 90% fatal pancreatic cancer were invented but caused side effects in 1 in a million people vaccinated with it, anti-vaxers would still immediately focus on the 1 in a million that suffers side effects and ignore the fact that nobody vaccinated will get, much less die from pancreatic cancer. That is anti-vaxer “logic” in a nutshell. Ignore the benefits and focus like a laser beam on rare side effects and lots of claimed side effects that didn’t actually happen.
This guy is actually dumb.
Immunocompromised people contract viruses from people who have gotten it due to the lack of vaccination.
The argument that unvaccinated people put those who can’t take a vaccine due to immunodeficiencies or allergies at risk is simply not true. Let’s think about this. These people are at risk from unvaccinated people no more than they are at risk of contracting the virus naturally. This leads, then, to the obvious question: “Where would an unvaccinated person get the virus from?” Wherever the unvaccinated person can get the virus from, wouldn’t the people who can’t be vaccinated be at risk from the same source as the unvaccinated? Unless you’re telling me that the virus somehow can differentiate between those who are can’t be vaccinated from those who choose not to be vaccinated. If that’s the case, then I would love to see the data on that.
Hi Sabrina. If enough people vaccinate, the virus can’t get a foothold in the population, so the people who can’t vaccinate are less likely to encounter an infected person. It’s intuitively logical as well as medically proven.
Please talk to me when you tuberculosis and or polio im sure all those fancy oils and crystals will help out alot and please continue to cough on unvaccinated children
Ah nope. I’m not falling for false equivalence.
How did you come to the conclusion that vaccines are bad? Read some stuff on the internet, and now your an expert?
Read some stuff on the internet? HAHAHAH Ok nostradamus, nice display of the straw man. This is what happens when people who are clueless about vaccines don’t have any idea what they are talking about.
Here is some scientist an expert’s giving you their advice and their opinions
That is from a lame documentary
From many in depth conversations with a real scientist who actually worked in a lab. ;)
I agree. A live debate on TV. NO script for the presenter. Media are all funded by Big Pharma. So, bring in an outsider for the moderator, if you can find one?Hard to find anyone who does not have a dog in this race though… This will never happen however, because those who work for Big Pharma, do not want to be embarrassed by those who do actually have the evidence, that the Big Pharma peeps do not want the public to see.
i am pro vax, but yes. there wouldn’t be any scripts because it would be like a talk show.
Dude, really? That is pretty rude to go around telling people who strongly believe in vaccinations have nothing on their side. Almost everyone knows about how we used to vaccinate and we already have had at least 20 different debates. It’s also not just about vaccinated verses unvaccinated either, as Andrew said. Some people are unable to vaccinate, and the ones who choose not vaccinate out of ignorance are injuring everyone. The vaccinated are okay. It’s the one who are unable to be vaccinated that we need to protect.
Explain why people with the flu shot still get the flu.
Explain why drinking a little bit of water still can leave you thirsty
ALL vaccines weaken the immune system. When people get the flu vaccine and get flu symptoms afterwards…they didn’t, the vaccine itself is toxic and they were poisoned, and the body’s response to being poisoned is to get sick to remove the poisons.
Couldn’t have said it better!
Google how many children have died from vaccines, not just one but 7 or 8 and see what you get
Google how many children have died from not getting vaccines
Calling us vaxtremists it’s not very nice. We do have credibility, it’s just that you don’t understand. Protecting the vaccinated from the unvaccinated is important and the fact that we have a problem shows that we do in fact think it is important. Also mentioning the medieval chemical injections is stupid to be honest because that was way back in the past. I agree, we should have a seminar on TV discussing the situation but I know, for a fact, that the vaxtremists will win.
It’s refreshing to see someone who actually believes what I believe. It’s pretty scary how much of the population is actually being led by this BS. I have my own family members putting me down because I don’t believe in Mass inoculation.
What you’re describing as BS is not really BS according to scientific non-biased studies. There is benefit to receiving vaccines. There are some drawbacks for the small number of people who have negative reactions to vaccines, but there are also literally drawbacks to anything on this planet. Many people are allergic to peanuts, and most respectable people attempt to keep peanuts and peanut products away from those people and their environments as much as possible. The emphasis for getting vaccines is quite similar.
When you refuse to vaccinate yourself and your family, you cannot blame others for being wary of or upset by your actions because you are endangering them and other people who are unable (but wanted) to get vaccines.
It may be refreshing to see someone who shares an opinion with you, but you have to realize who your opinion is hurting.
Do you have credibility?
Prove yourself first.
Ok idiot why do you think that way. Do you just want to be a jerk. Or did a 25x debunked project make you think that vaccines cause autism
Ok do you want your child to get this
A televised debate is a volatile medium to communicate truth. Look at political TV debates, the more truthful politician doesn’t always win the debate. You know this. You’re being disingenuous.
Is more about protecting the children anti-vaxers are NEGLECTING AND ENDANGERING. Jesus man there is no argument here, if left up to people like you we would still quite literally still be seeing 5,000,000 smallpox deaths every year worldwide. There is a mountain of redundant scientific evidence that has been duplicated over and over and the conclusion of it is: Vaccination works and the risks of not vaccinating far outweigh those of vaccinating. There is no argument here at all, just reality on the one hand and delusional people trying to deny it on the other. It’s time to start criminally charging anti-vaxers who deny their kids vaccination protection and the charges should dramatically increase in severity if their child gets a disease they were not vaccinated against. If they die from it then it’s time to start filing manslaughter charges against the parents.
Then surely the flipside would be also true (using your own logic)? People who vaccinate their children who unfortunately see their own innocent children suffer a life changing adverse reaction – or even death, should also be prosecuted for manslaughter? In addition the company who manufactured the vaccine should also be prosecuted? Right?
Oh wait – you cant. The vaccine companies are protected from being sued or punished in any way, They have guaranteed immunity from prosecution. Why is that?
There is a mountain of scientific evidence logging adverse reactions to vaccines. Read it sometime and educate yourself on the actual risks. There are public domain videos of talks about the vaccine court of special masters by the people who work there. Look them up. One interesting talk mentions the fact that the vaccine industry keeps moving the goal posts and now you are no longer allowed to claim injury from certain vaccines. So vaccine x was accepted as causing damage for years, payments were made. Lives were ruined but at least some justice was possible, Now suddenly vaccine x is no longer dangerous, it now causes no damage at all – ever, and no more payments are made. It is literally “write your own rule book justice”. It is an insult to peoples intelligence and an insult to the concept of justice.
Vaccines all come with a risk, Vaccines never come with 100% effectiveness (they don’t work for everybody). Vaccine protection attenuates over time – time sometimes measured in mere days. Again all facts. Look them up. They are on the official medical websites, not on “quack” science sites.
Or put another way you risk your child’s life for something which you know can hurt them, may not work and even if it does work it wont last very long.
Finally the whole vaccine process is managed by large companies making billions and filtering facts to suit their purposes. The same companies enjoy immunity from any punishment whatsoever.
I can think of a much better system. I can think of a much fairer system. I can think of a much safer system. I can think of a much less corrupt system.
Why cant we have the system I can imagine?
Nobody has said anything about protecting the vaccinated from the unvaccinated its about protecting those who absolutely cannot be vaccinated or for those who vaccinations does not work from those who are not vaccinated.
A succinct synopsis of the issues and solutions. Perhaps you could add a # 8: “When communicating (verbal and written) with your patients and their significant others, avoid medical jargon”. Many people find it difficult to understand, especially those for whom English is a 2nd language. Medical practitioners are improving in this area, but still a work in process.